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After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

nytimes.com

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Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#11

Post by fred_is_fred »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #6
meri_dian wrote: post #2

Something she had to say about herself... "For those of you honestly concerned. I don't support weev, that's not given in how I define friendship. I believe white folks should engage with the racists in their life … and I believe all people are redeemable, and "all people" is all people." That's an admirable perspective. She is clearly not racist or anything else herself. She is a casualty of the reactionary zeitgeis…

I also think it's inherently silly to believe you can't be friends with people you disagree with. Some of the more lasting memories in my life came from conversations I've had with people that I couldn't be further apart from in perspective and opinion, and some of them, I'd go so far as to say I was friends with.

How many Nazis are you friends with? Could you be friends with someone who wants to murder "jew children" like weev? I sure hope not.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#12

Post by fred_is_fred »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #10
meri_dian wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ny-times-quinn-norton-n...

This seems to me that she was mostly using words which are offensive, but frequently used outside of their intended meaning. Definitely language I wouldn't use myself. But for example, "that's gay" has been relatively often used as an insult/derogatory, inadvertently by people not intending to be homophobic. I'd definitely call out it's use today, but I'm not sure I'd hunt someone down and try to ruin their career ov…

Edit: removed since apparaently it was a RT

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#13

Post by econnors »

meri_dian wrote: post #2

Something she had to say about herself... "For those of you honestly concerned. I don't support weev, that's not given in how I define friendship. I believe white folks should engage with the racists in their life … and I believe all people are redeemable, and "all people" is all people." That's an admirable perspective. She is clearly not racist or anything else herself. She is a casualty of the reactionary zeitgeis…

There's a difference between engaging with people who have different viewpoints and being friends with them. I consider friendship to be an endorsement of the other person. Same for "loving your enemies". MLK is advocating for peaceful protest here, not saying that you should excuse and forget your enemy's actions.

I'm not sure I agree with any argument made in favor of being friends with white supremacists. Defend their right to free speech and engage in debate? Sure. But society should strongly condemn and criticize them for racist thoughts and words. Freedom of speech doesn't guarantee you freedom from consequence of those words.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#14

Post by zerb »

meri_dian wrote: post #2

Something she had to say about herself... "For those of you honestly concerned. I don't support weev, that's not given in how I define friendship. I believe white folks should engage with the racists in their life … and I believe all people are redeemable, and "all people" is all people." That's an admirable perspective. She is clearly not racist or anything else herself. She is a casualty of the reactionary zeitgeis…

Certainly. 2016 is evidence of what happens when you don't listen to people you disagree with. Lower class whites are disproportionally-likely to have "deplorable" views. Yet even as we as a society move to bring education to more and more people, still this demographic has become the last remaining group of people that it's "OK" to hate. So they've reacted.

Disclaimers: Obviously, not everyone who's a lower-income white person is racist. Nor do I support racist views -- just saying that ignoring people will not help effect change. MLK was a genius and great person.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#15

Post by ocdtrekkie »

fred_is_fred wrote: post #11
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think it's inherently silly to believe you can't be friends with people you disagree with. Some of the more lasting memories in my life came from conversations I've had with people that I couldn't be further apart from in perspective and opinion, and some of them, I'd go so far as to say I was friends with.

How many Nazis are you friends with? Could you be friends with someone who wants to murder "jew children" like weev? I sure hope not.

I don't think I'm friends with anyone I'd call a Nazi or white supremacist, I don't follow everyone I've ever been friends with before, so couldn't tell you for sure noone I've been friends with isn't one today.

I did have an annoyingly frustrating conversation yesterday with someone I had to work really hard to convince the footage from the Tesla in orbit wasn't shot in a studio. I'd call him a friend, I think. Definitely have some big rifts of views though.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#17

Post by meri_dian »

fred_is_fred wrote: post #8
meri_dian wrote: post #2

Something she had to say about herself... "For those of you honestly concerned. I don't support weev, that's not given in how I define friendship. I believe white folks should engage with the racists in their life … and I believe all people are redeemable, and "all people" is all people." That's an admirable perspective. She is clearly not racist or anything else herself. She is a casualty of the reactionary zeitgeis…

Stop being an apologist. Based on what she's said in the past, she's a racist and a homophobe. It's not a total stretch to see that she's friends with Nazis because maybe she believes in what they are saying. Are any of you friends with Nazis? I can barely deal with my racist in-laws in Texas, so I have no idea how you could be friends with a Nazi. Her words that she spoke back when she wasn't under the microscope ar…

I can understand why you would think that, but you should read her tweets a few more times.

The words she used in the past don't seem to have been used with the intention of belittling anyone. While it's probably unwise to use them at all, I doubt her intent was to hurt others.

And I'll quote MLK whenever I want. His words may make you uncomfortable because they preach love of people you disagree with, something you may not support, but they are his words.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#18

Post by stevemk14ebr »

I legitimately do not understand why people expose themselves on social media like this! I was 12 or so when i got my first social media, and even back THEN i knew that posting the wrong thing would get be in trouble with my friends, parents, or even school. It blows my mind that full grown adults use such devisive language in a public setting. You have to KNOW that what you are doing is dumb and risky. Not to mention she works in writing, which is a job that's at least partially about YOUR PUBLIC IMAGE, i mean really this is first grade "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it at all...[ESPECIALLY IF YOUR LIVELYHOOD DEPEND ON YOUR IMAGE]"

Reading the comment by @meri_dian I initially thought "ok she had a non-pc racist friend and supported them. Then by association she was deemed to risky for NYTimes". That by itself is a not "character damning" to her, but you can see how a company would want to distance themselves.

Then i read her actual tweets, where she actually called people slurs. That is not defend-able, and I think she deserves it.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#19

Post by meri_dian »

econnors wrote: post #13
meri_dian wrote: post #2

Something she had to say about herself... "For those of you honestly concerned. I don't support weev, that's not given in how I define friendship. I believe white folks should engage with the racists in their life … and I believe all people are redeemable, and "all people" is all people." That's an admirable perspective. She is clearly not racist or anything else herself. She is a casualty of the reactionary zeitgeis…

There's a difference between engaging with people who have different viewpoints and being friends with them. I consider friendship to be an endorsement of the other person. Same for "loving your enemies". MLK is advocating for peaceful protest here, not saying that you should excuse and forget your enemy's actions. I'm not sure I agree with any argument made in favor of being friends with white supremacists. Defend t…

"I consider friendship to be an endorsement of the other person."

Not everyone feels that way.

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