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AMP for email is a terrible idea

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Re: AMP for email is a terrible idea

#341

Post by Zpalmtree »

jacquesm wrote: post #105

Poor frogs. The water temp just got upped a couple of degrees. Too late to jump out or not just yet? Some relief for frogs that make it out of the pot: https://mailinabox.email/ https://redmail.com/ https://protonmail.com/ https://www.fastmail.com/

Happy user of mailinabox here. Switched to it after openmailbox.org decided to kill their userbase by bringing out some completely unfunctional "new" UI along with three days of unscheduled downtime, which still doesn't work months on.

Barely no maintenance and I can add a prefix to all of my email addresses to easily blacklist anywhere that sells my email or unsubscribe links don't work for.

Re: AMP for email is a terrible idea

#342

Post by feikname »

wruza wrote: post #334
mankash666 wrote: post #207

I'll get down voted for saying this, but the HN crowd's hypocrisy is baffling. 1. Gmail is a channel that Google has under monetized for a decade. This is an opportunity for them to extract value from the said channel. If you're allergic to Google offering free services that use your data for advertising, go pay for email. Google isn't a charity and you aren't entitled to a Gmail of your choosing. 2. Apple is a prime…

c) without amp sites work with no misbehaving header bar that they cannot fix. Every time I scroll down it pops up. If you have an iphone, you know how safari header behaves and it is convenient/usual. This damned amp plate only allows you to scroll down and close. Note: I’m not talking about “tap clock to scrool to top” here. If you don’t understand these UX details, well, don’t blame then. I’m pretty okay with goog…

AMP header breaks even Chrome UX for me.

It somehow ends hiding the address bar and replacing it with the AMP one once I've started to scroll down, and the only solution is to scroll all the way to the top again.

I have the address bar set to never hide, which makes this even more annoting.

Re: AMP for email is a terrible idea

#345

Post by rident »

simias wrote: post #325
mankash666 wrote: post #207

I'll get down voted for saying this, but the HN crowd's hypocrisy is baffling. 1. Gmail is a channel that Google has under monetized for a decade. This is an opportunity for them to extract value from the said channel. If you're allergic to Google offering free services that use your data for advertising, go pay for email. Google isn't a charity and you aren't entitled to a Gmail of your choosing. 2. Apple is a prime…

I'm not sure I understand your point. You're projecting a lot, there's more to the world of computers than Google and Apple. At any rate you choose to buy into Apple ecosystem. A big email provider changing how email works is not the same thing. For the record I host my own email server and use mutt as my main email client. The only Apple device I own is an old pre-iphone iPod. If Google changes the expectations of e…

Falling into the 3-4 crowd myself I also agree with this. Changing emails - perhaps in an automatic fashion - to use AMP is going to do nothing but harm to anyone outside Google. Image inclusion the AMP way [1] alone will ruin HTML email for other services. If Google really wanted to improve emails they would push for full compliance HTML5 support. Because if emails could be built with grid layouts, content could be more semantic, you wouldn't need a plain text version, we'd use less mark up and save on server space and bandwidth.

[1] https://ampbyexample.com/components/amp-img/

Re: AMP for email is a terrible idea

#346

Post by ams6110 »

KMag wrote: post #316
r3bl wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing stopping end users from using non-Google search engine. Bing, Yahoo, DuckDuckGo... they're all viable products that you can use to accomplish 90ish% of what Google could find, and maybe even more now that Google strips historical data (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16153840 , from a month ago). Since you're mentioning SEO, I just checked and 15.8% of searches for my website came from non-Go…

> There's nothing stopping end users from using non-Google search engine. Just so everyone's clear, monopoly doesn't mean (nearly) 100% market share; it means a large enough market share to be able to manipulate the market. So, to elaborate on your first point, I think you're saying that the ease of switching search engines means that a market share necessary to manipulate the search market would be near 100%, much h…

Do you have an economic or legal reference for that definition of "monopoly"?

Since search engines are all free to use, many of the criteria of a monopoly seem hard to apply, but the classic defintions I'm familiar with include things such as "no reasonable substitute" which is not the case for Google Search.

Re: AMP for email is a terrible idea

#347

Post by kuschku »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #337
kuschku wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something can be a monopoly in market, but not in another. Google isn't a monopoly for users, it's a monopoly for developers. You can't get users without being on Google. Only if I can replace one company with another, at roughly equal results, can the market be considered competitive. I can't delist my site on Google and replace those users with Bing users. If each search engine had only 5% or 10% of the market, tho…

I would tend to agree, but not their email. That's easily replaced.

Is it? Can you simply avoid emailing GMail users and continue?

Not really.

And yet, thanks to their broken spam filters, you may have to.

Re: AMP for email is a terrible idea

#348

Post by so33 »

mankash666 wrote: post #207

I'll get down voted for saying this, but the HN crowd's hypocrisy is baffling. 1. Gmail is a channel that Google has under monetized for a decade. This is an opportunity for them to extract value from the said channel. If you're allergic to Google offering free services that use your data for advertising, go pay for email. Google isn't a charity and you aren't entitled to a Gmail of your choosing. 2. Apple is a prime…

Apple can lock down their devices however they damn please. No matter how much they lock it down, it will not directly affect the majority of people, who use Android. If Apple made everyone use Apple News, only a minority of people will be inconvenienced. (Incidentally, the MFi program has nothing to do with this.)

But _publishers_ are pressured to support AMP because Google, the most popular search engine by far, prioritizes AMP results. If they do anything with AMP they can likely have their way. And the same will likely apply for email.

Re: AMP for email is a terrible idea

#349

Post by Anderkent »

rootlocus wrote: post #321
wklauss wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll get down voted for saying this No, you'll get down voted for the way you are saying it. There's a difference, and it's an important one. Cheers

> No, you'll get down voted for the way you are saying it. There's a difference, and it's an important one. Voting for the shape instead of the content is superficial.

No, it's essential discussion quality management. Doesn't matter how good your argument is if you're so rude/condescending/etc that no one can engage with your point.

Re: AMP for email is a terrible idea

#350

Post by thrownaway954 »

While I don't like the idea of AMP cause, let's face it, it's change, it really is the next step of evolution for email. Email stopped being this sacred thing when you could create an HTML email.

i think that AMP is a way to make up for the fact that Chrome will be blocking ads tomorrow. Google has to do something to give publishers a way to reach people and make money otherwise publishers will begin to start charging Google in some way or take their business else where.

When you open an email, a publisher has your direct attention and being able to interact with you in a two way direction is HUGE.

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