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Ask HN: Have you successfully done a career do-over, and how did you do it?

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Re: Ask HN: Have you successfully done a career do-over, and how did you do it?

#11

Post by alf-pogz »

swedish_mafia wrote: post #4

I believe this is a time when a lot of software engineers are asking the hard questions about their careers. Here's why: The technologies have become simpler and the barriers to entry have become low. Once upon a time, if you knew the mainstream languages (C++ and Java) it meant you paid your dues learning the hard stuff. Today, with nodejs becoming mainstream, and the cloud at the backend, developers who come from a…

I agree with your conclusion, but I think it is due to a different pathway. Fewer developers will be necessary as code-sharing and packaging has improved and standardized. Trust me, people just entering development are still pretty terrible.

Re: Ask HN: Have you successfully done a career do-over, and how did you do it?

#12

Post by majormajor »

swedish_mafia wrote: post #4

I believe this is a time when a lot of software engineers are asking the hard questions about their careers. Here's why: The technologies have become simpler and the barriers to entry have become low. Once upon a time, if you knew the mainstream languages (C++ and Java) it meant you paid your dues learning the hard stuff. Today, with nodejs becoming mainstream, and the cloud at the backend, developers who come from a…

> developers who come from an "html programming" background can now build scalable and enterprise grade applications without breaking a sweat

Give it five years or so as the business needs of those companies change and the codebases become more and more expensive to maintain. :)

Focusing on the technological complexity is a bit of a red herring, at least as many problems come from having to keep up with the complexity inherent in dealing with an ever-changing "real world." Usually you can't just flip a switch from A to B, you have to support old workflows/clients, new workflows/clients, transitional modes, etc.

We don't have any real sort of "engineering standards" for software development. Unless/until we find those, it's very hard to claim that the workers will be reduced to interchangeable cogs. We don't really even know what those cogs need to do to make sure a codebase doesn't become a big mess, today, based on the codebases I've seen.

Without that, developing meta-/organizational-/design- skills, instincts, and creativity can be very powerful. Being able to sell that effectively without necessarily having to aim for management positions might be a bigger trick, but it's hardly impossible.

But even if you try to make your calling card something like e.g. a "node.js+AWS stack" expert, you've probably got a significant amount of future work at least in maintenance for all the companies that build themselves on that stack today. Maybe that's not what you want - in that case stay on the new-tech treadmill if you don't want to do more design/architectural/organizational stuff - but it's something that will be needed, at least.

Re: Ask HN: Have you successfully done a career do-over, and how did you do it?

#13

Post by fzss »

swedish_mafia wrote: post #4

I believe this is a time when a lot of software engineers are asking the hard questions about their careers. Here's why: The technologies have become simpler and the barriers to entry have become low. Once upon a time, if you knew the mainstream languages (C++ and Java) it meant you paid your dues learning the hard stuff. Today, with nodejs becoming mainstream, and the cloud at the backend, developers who come from a…

A software engineers competitiveness comes from more than just familiarity with some languages and frameworks.

The ability to quickly learn and adapt is in my opinion an important part.

Re: Ask HN: Have you successfully done a career do-over, and how did you do it?

#14

Post by haskellandchill »

I have done a career do-over. I took a lower paying position that involved pair programming. It was like developer rehab after the startup grind left me wondering if I could even contribute as a programmer anymore. The firm had a good reputation and recruiters were all over me, which was good. Then I took a much higher paying enterprise type job where it doesn't matter how I code and there is no point in doing anything better. Not sure what my next move will be, might get knighted as a data scientist soon, who knows. Good luck!

Re: Ask HN: Have you successfully done a career do-over, and how did you do it?

#15

Post by ChuckMcM »

I'm not sure what this means: What did you do to redeem yourself in the eyes of your respective industry?

Are you talking about someone who screwed up enough times that the mean free distance to a negative referral is essentially 1.0 ? I don't see industries as having 'eyes' but I have known industries that are relatively small communities.

I have known, and hired, a number of people who have 'redone' their career when the thing they started with didn't pan out, a chemist into a QA person, a semiconductor process engineer into a UNIX developer, a mom into a product manager. That sort of 'do over'.

And I've met folks who 'grew up' in a company doing one thing for 15 to 20 years and then failed to find an opportunity to continue doing that thing. Only to switch into a different career all together. Most commonly that is, "Hey you weren't you 20 years at BigCorp? What are you doing these days, 'mostly consulting'" sorts of conversations.

Re: Ask HN: Have you successfully done a career do-over, and how did you do it?

#16

Post by [deleted] »

jaredhansen wrote: post #9
swedish_mafia wrote: post #4

I believe this is a time when a lot of software engineers are asking the hard questions about their careers. Here's why: The technologies have become simpler and the barriers to entry have become low. Once upon a time, if you knew the mainstream languages (C++ and Java) it meant you paid your dues learning the hard stuff. Today, with nodejs becoming mainstream, and the cloud at the backend, developers who come from a…

>developers who come from an "html programming" background can now build scalable and enterprise grade applications without breaking a sweat. This is a popular misconception but inaccurate nonetheless. It may appear that way at first glance, but there is still more to building "scalable and enterprise grade" stuff than just cobbling together a bunch of off the shelf components.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Have you successfully done a career do-over, and how did you do it?

#17

Post by maxaf »

swedish_mafia wrote: post #4

I believe this is a time when a lot of software engineers are asking the hard questions about their careers. Here's why: The technologies have become simpler and the barriers to entry have become low. Once upon a time, if you knew the mainstream languages (C++ and Java) it meant you paid your dues learning the hard stuff. Today, with nodejs becoming mainstream, and the cloud at the backend, developers who come from a…

I disagree with some of your points. Firstly, being able to crank out simple web apps doesn't translate to building large systems that solve hard problems. There's a huge gulf there that can only be bridged by experience, and lots of it. Secondly, and this also speaks to experience, simply having worked in a "software developer"-style job for some number of years doesn't convey the experience needed to solve hard problems. Let's face the following inconvenient truth: there are many people who "get into coding" in order to find a job which will pay them a reasonable sum of money for life. Some folks use the term "lifers", which I personally consider derogatory, although there's some truth to it considering that it serves to differentiate those of us who're in this for the joy of craftsmanship from those who simply want a paycheck. Even more remarkable is the fact that the two extremes aren't mutually exclusive. Speaking for myself, I really really really love what I do, but I also enjoy the economic benefits that my profession affords my family.

If anything threatens software engineers, it's probably the rise of automation capable of making the "basic web app" people obsolete. I snigger at myself when I contemplate some kind of AI which could do this, although the idea seems less crazy when viewed in the context of many companies and individuals who have attempted to create a "build anything fast" framework/service/ecosystem/etc. Perhaps it does take an AI.

Otherwise we're pretty safe, methinks. Carry on, no need to try for a career change, unless you're really sick of the job itself, in which case the world is your oyster.

Re: Ask HN: Have you successfully done a career do-over, and how did you do it?

#18

Post by southphillyman »

Can't speak on it personally but about 3-4 years ago during my last job search I searched a few "Getting a dev job after 30" type queries. I was around that age and concerned about all the ageism claims. Apparently there are forums full of former developers either out of the industry or struggling to remain in it. There was a lot of talk about depression and guys being suicidal because they couldn't keep up with the industry, etc. Really eye opening to me at the time as the industry seemed strong as ever, even for outdated stacks.

If you're not getting any offers that's one thing I guess, but imposter syndrome is real in the industry. We all worry about being up to some rockstar level and all the grueling interview processes out there. Then we brush up for a couple of weeks, hit the market, and field multiple offers again.

Re: Ask HN: Have you successfully done a career do-over, and how did you do it?

#19

Post by Kenji »

swedish_mafia wrote: post #4

I believe this is a time when a lot of software engineers are asking the hard questions about their careers. Here's why: The technologies have become simpler and the barriers to entry have become low. Once upon a time, if you knew the mainstream languages (C++ and Java) it meant you paid your dues learning the hard stuff. Today, with nodejs becoming mainstream, and the cloud at the backend, developers who come from a…

Today, with nodejs becoming mainstream, and the cloud at the backend, developers who come from an "html programming" background can now build scalable and enterprise grade applications without breaking a sweat.

That's complete nonsense. As a system grows, so does its complexity. And no amount of libraries and fancy languages can turn a complex distributed stack into a simple straightforward thing. If you you have deep knowledge of whatever you're working on (be it the deepest ins & outs of C++ or nodejs), you're worth your weight in gold.

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