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Lottery winner asking a judge to let her keep the cash and remain anonymous

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Re: Lottery winner asking a judge to let her keep the cash and remain anonymous

#181

Post by logfromblammo »

I think the operator of a lottery-style gambling game has an obligation to publish its list of winners. It does not have an obligation to say how much they won.

This prevents the operator from simply saying someone has won and never paying out. In theory, you could go around to everyone on the list and ask them if they won a lottery prize. If anyone denies it, the operator might be pocketing prize money.

It is clear from the available evidence that publishing the amount that someone has won does harm to the winners. It becomes feedstock for a "people to rob or defraud" list. The same principle is applied to the secret ballot, wherein anyone can find out if you voted in an election or not, but they cannot know whom you voted for unless you tell them yourself. You can, of course, lie to them if you desire.

  Q: Ma'am, did you win the lottery this week?
  A: Yes.  My name is on the list, isn't it?
  Q: How much did you win?
  A: A dollar.
  Q: You didn't win the jackpot?
     That's a new car, isn't it?
  A: Of course not.
     I got a good deal on the financing, that's all.
  Q: And the 12-foot bronze statue of
     David Hasselhoff's Baywatch character?
  A: I found it at a dump.
  Q: Clearly, you also hired Peter Dinklage
     to dress up as Tyrion for your birthday party.
  A: That's just an enthusiastic cosplayer.
It's also difficult to enjoy being rich without making it glaringly obvious that you have money, so I'm not seeing any pressing need for the judge to anonymize this particular winner after the fact. It might be warranted for the state to look into legislation that places greater weight on the financial privacy of future winners.

Re: Lottery winner asking a judge to let her keep the cash and remain anonymous

#182

Post by toast0 »

mcbits wrote: post #106
wgerard wrote: post #6

I hope she wins. There's a pretty funny (or sad, I suppose) reddit comment about winning the lottery that seems pretty true: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/24vzgl/you_just_... Winning the lottery (publicly, at least) seems to be a real monkey's paw wish.

I really disagree with the common advice to take the lump sum - unless the winner is elderly. It seems to be centered on the idea that you can earn more interest/dividends yourself, but there are a few problems with that. 1. To get higher rates of return, you expose yourself to more risk of losses. The risk is real, i.e., you could lose everything. 2. You need even better (riskier) returns to pay for all the legal/in…

Your point three doesn't seem very accurate.

First, the withholding rate is immaterial, it's clearly not enough to meet the tax obligations, you'll owe much more, and should start paying quarterly estimated taxes right away.

Because the annuity is pre-tax, the annuity payments will be taxable. There is some positive tax benefit of spreading the income over many years, because you have a lower marginal tax rate on the bottom of the bracket, but if the annual payments are $2-3 million, there's still a large amount taxed at the maximum rates.

In addition, if you take the lump sum, and invest it, your gains will likely be in the form of qualified dividends, and long term capital gains, which have more favorable tax treatment. If you invest in tax-exempt bonds, you won't pay any tax on the bond payments (but can still have taxable capital gains or losses on the bonds themselves).

The behavioral factors are much more compelling.

I would also take issue with 2; you can take the lump sum and dump it in a Target Date 2030 fund, and be done with it. It's not tax optimized, but whatever, it's easy and done. Yes, you need an estate attorney to help you draw up wills and/or living trusts, but that's not a big deal either. Also, get a big umbrella insurance policy to cover whatever. Because there's no way to shelter the lump sum (or annuity) payments from taxes, and because future capital gains will have preferential treatment, there's not much reason to spend a lot of effort on heroic tax avoidance. You probably need to spend a little bit more on legal advice when you take up new ventures than you would otherwise, but that's only needed when you take up the new venture.

Re: Lottery winner asking a judge to let her keep the cash and remain anonymous

#183

Post by ABCLAW »

kodablah wrote: post #162
ABCLAW wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We should ask our judges not to legislate from the bench Why not? This is a core facet of their job. The tug of war in law between flexibility and certainty is nothing new. In this case you've state the outcome should be either all entitled to anonymity or all restricted from anonymity. Why are those the only two options? Say sociological research shows: 1) people conceal lottery earnings from spouses in the context…

> This is why our judges get to tinker with our rules. Because real life has edge cases. Real life also has preferences and bias. This is why our judges mostly do not get to tinker with the rules.

>This is why our judges mostly do not get to tinker with the rules.

They mostly don't tinker, not because they aren't allowed, but because rules are designed to capture the base case, so most cases are anticipated by the rules.

This is why most reviews and reporters do not list every banal dispute.

Re: Lottery winner asking a judge to let her keep the cash and remain anonymous

#184

Post by s73v3r_ »

kodablah wrote: post #51
wgerard wrote: post #6

I hope she wins. There's a pretty funny (or sad, I suppose) reddit comment about winning the lottery that seems pretty true: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/24vzgl/you_just_... Winning the lottery (publicly, at least) seems to be a real monkey's paw wish.

> I hope she wins I'm not sure I do. She opted into a transparent system and gets the down side that comes with it (or opts out). If this was thrust upon her, I might feel different. I fear the precedent this would set for redacting names from Forbes lists and the like. It's one of those unfortunate occurrences where openness and privacy are in conflict and when it's government actions like this, arresting someone, a…

Why? Can I ask why you feel entitled to know what other people are worth? And where can I see your name and net worth?

Re: Lottery winner asking a judge to let her keep the cash and remain anonymous

#185

Post by BrandoElFollito »

Is this standard practice in the US (forcing people out anonymity when they win at the lottery), or is this in this state only?

Here in France you have the choice (the lottery is not even encouraging you that much to go public).

Re: Lottery winner asking a judge to let her keep the cash and remain anonymous

#186

Post by ikeboy »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #140
wgerard wrote: post #6

I hope she wins. There's a pretty funny (or sad, I suppose) reddit comment about winning the lottery that seems pretty true: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/24vzgl/you_just_... Winning the lottery (publicly, at least) seems to be a real monkey's paw wish.

Yeah, that. It always amazed me that Eric Schmidt spent millions every year on personal security for himself and his family. But the reality is that for some people it is "easier" to find someone with money and force them to give it up than it is to get the money legitimately. The comments about family really resonate. I did not realize that so many of these folks were being killed by family members, that seems a bit…

The general rule is, if you can afford it, you need it. I think I first saw this rule about lawyers but rings true with bodyguards, insurance, etc

Re: Lottery winner asking a judge to let her keep the cash and remain anonymous

#187

Post by madamelic »

gamblor956 wrote: post #142
_red wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree she opted in. However, for your "Forbes" example the law makes a distinction between a public person and a private person. Many many "private" people successfully sue Forbes to get off their annual "kidnap and ransom" list. The key to being declared a private person is never making public comments or speeches, etc.

Many many "private" people successfully sue Forbes to get off their annual "kidnap and ransom" list. Citation needed. Something like that would be pretty big news, especially considering that Forbes will voluntarily redact names of individuals from their list if requested, no lawsuit required.

Something tells me that if you sue for privacy, you probably aren't going to want that fact widely or at all publicized.

Re: Lottery winner asking a judge to let her keep the cash and remain anonymous

#188

Post by MrZongle2 »

On one hand, I can understand the winner's desire to stay anonymous -- it has to be quite a magnet for every estranged relative and con-artist, not to mention any anxiety that may arise in the future when dealing with immediate family and friends when it comes to holidays, birthdays, and even a simple meal out.

And, on top of that, the stress of simply managing that amount of money so you don't end up as another "they blew it all" story about lottery winners.

That said: I wish I had her problem.

Most people probably would say the same. However, for a half-billion dollars I'd just assume that managing both the money and the people you have to interact with was my new job.

And, at some point...things would have to improve. You change your phone number. You change your address. You identify the moochers and the honest friends. You've hired a lawyer and a financial planner. And, on top of all that, you know that you and your loved ones won't want for food, shelter or health care. Ever. And that you can use some of your fortune to make a positive impact on your community, as you see fit.

I hope she wins her case, but if she doesn't...I'd still trade places with her in a hot minute.

Re: Lottery winner asking a judge to let her keep the cash and remain anonymous

#189

Post by xsmasher »

newbuser wrote: post #137
giarc wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only talk about Canada, but in both Ontario and western Canada they scan your ticket and an audible sound is made if you are a winner (or loser). For both winners and non-winners, a receipt prints out and the clerk gives you both. Additionally there is a self scan kiosk where you can check your ticket. And there's always publicly listed winning numbers.

No idea how the system works, but if the clerk is able to disable the scanner and manually press a hidden button that plays the audio of the losing sound, seems like a pretty easy system to break.

Or if the clerk scans a losing ticket of their own, from their pocket.

Re: Lottery winner asking a judge to let her keep the cash and remain anonymous

#190

Post by madamelic »

greggarious wrote: post #114
giarc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So moral of the story is to never sign your ticket. Looks like some lucky person was smart enough to do that. "In 2016, the last winner of the Powerball followed that advice. The $487 million prize claimed through the Robin Egg 2016 Nominee Trust, which was created by Shaheen, and he serves as its trustee."

> So moral of the story is to never sign your ticket. But doesn't this mean if someone can assault you and steal the ticket they can claim it themselves? Sounds like both have risks :/

I think you have bigger problems if you count being mugged between your couch and your cell phone to call a law firm as a risk.
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