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The Case for the “Self-Driven Child”

scientificamerican.com

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Re: The Case for the “Self-Driven Child”

#111

Post by 0xdeadbeefbabe »

munificent wrote: post #100
zachlatta wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I deeply and thoroughly don't understand this mindset. Whether you like it or not, technology is part of growing up in the 21st century. It's not just an "outlet" or a place to waste time on YouTube, it's interwoven into everything in their lives. Their ability to gather information depends on it. Their social lives depend on it. Just as yours does. If you restrict access, you're pretending like a very crucial part o…

I don't think it makes sense to lump all of uses of technology into a single conceptual bucket any more than it's useful to say, "Kids will use things that are made of plastic when they grow up so we shouldn't restrict access to plastic things." Watching unboxing videos on YouTube, posting selfies on Instagram (and getting judged by them), programming a videogame, compulsively clicking notifications and skimming soci…

They pulled it off effectively with the personal computer of the early 90s.

Edit: Unwittingly.

Re: The Case for the “Self-Driven Child”

#112

Post by padobson »

temp-dude-87844 wrote: post #14

I was self-driven by the book's description, enabled by unobtrusive parenting and a stable home life. But I also turned out really well by several objective metrics, and many of my peers in similar circumstances didn't. As I think about how to parent, where you're supplying steady inputs into the system with many other inputs, I'm beginning to think we undervalue positive parenting contributions but overvalue its det…

This book seems to strike a tone of unobtrusive enablement much like what I received

I think this works because of the unobtrusive part. Obtrusive enablement, or the protection from natural consequences, can stunt growth just as much as over-parenting.

You definitely want to protect your kids from mistakes that can end with them in jail or dead, but letting them skin their knees or suffer the consequences of being rude to peers allows them to feel the weight of their autonomy.

Re: The Case for the “Self-Driven Child”

#113

Post by [deleted] »

stinkytaco wrote: post #4

There's a certain irony in this. By putting restrictions on kids (no screens, digital downtime, etc), we expect them to become self-driven. This is a great idea in theory, but it also seems pretty likely that a kid will go to their friends house to watch Youtube videos, when I would just as soon have them (and their friends, if necessary) at my house doing that where at least I have some sense of what they are watchi…

[deleted]

Re: The Case for the “Self-Driven Child”

#114

Post by akhilcacharya »

I feel like I had a lot of control in my childhood, because I actively resisted structure. With that said, even that structure wouldn't have helped much - I'm still a failure compared to most of the HN crowd (no Harker/Exeter/Andover, no Stanford/Harvard/MIT/Cal, no Google/FB/Pinterest).

Re: The Case for the “Self-Driven Child”

#116

Post by bpicolo »

adamnemecek wrote: post #65
barsonme wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was 8 I'd have only read books on dinosaurs, baseball, and the Legend of Zelda. It took me until halfway or more through college to realize I really liked programming, way more than I did my other majors I'd invested considerable time and money in (medicine, politics). Kids, especially 8-year-olds, need a lot of guidance and need to learn the fundamentals. I'm very glad my parents and teachers worked hard to m…

Perfect! Now design the math curriculum so that it steers you towards game development (this would be individual) and you have a good educational system.

> design the math curriculum so that it steers you towards game development

And suddenly 95% of 5th graders are doing math curriculums with a specific focus on game development. Games and gaming are tremendously appealing to young kids over nearly everything else.

Re: The Case for the “Self-Driven Child”

#117

Post by jonlucc »

0xdeadbeefbabe wrote: post #111
munificent wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it makes sense to lump all of uses of technology into a single conceptual bucket any more than it's useful to say, "Kids will use things that are made of plastic when they grow up so we shouldn't restrict access to plastic things." Watching unboxing videos on YouTube, posting selfies on Instagram (and getting judged by them), programming a videogame, compulsively clicking notifications and skimming soci…

They pulled it off effectively with the personal computer of the early 90s. Edit: Unwittingly.

Maybe, but then when you turned off the computer, you might have gone to sit in front of the TV with your family, or played a board game, or talk on the phone with your friends. All of those things can happen online, and so I don't know that it's fair to compare computer usage of the 90s with computer usage today.

Re: The Case for the “Self-Driven Child”

#118

Post by ElongateMuskrat »

stinkytaco wrote: post #4

There's a certain irony in this. By putting restrictions on kids (no screens, digital downtime, etc), we expect them to become self-driven. This is a great idea in theory, but it also seems pretty likely that a kid will go to their friends house to watch Youtube videos, when I would just as soon have them (and their friends, if necessary) at my house doing that where at least I have some sense of what they are watchi…

Also an irony in criticizing both devalued community and people living at home in their twenties/thirties. In many (most?) non-American cultures, emphasizing collectivist/communal values goes hand-in-hand with living at home in your twenties, which is deemed perfectly normal. In fact, I would say it's more abnormal on a global scale to kick your kids out at 18.

Re: The Case for the “Self-Driven Child”

#119

Post by probablymaybe »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #95
whataretensors wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In regards to reward signals it seems similar when collapsed. No ownership. No way to succeed through creativity. No way to escape a degraded too-large-to-fail system. Maybe there's a better word for it?

>No ownership. No way to succeed through creativity. No way to escape a degraded too-large-to-fail system Sounds like the kind of soul crushing job school is preparing most children for.

High school did a great job of preparing me to work in an office. I had four bosses who all insisted that their pointless busywork was the most important, and they all demanded that I complete said work with no outside resources on an unrealistic schedule.

Re: The Case for the “Self-Driven Child”

#120

Post by fsloth »

whataretensors wrote: post #15

Look at reward signals. Elementary through high school is a little sliver of what a collapsed marxist society looks like - no positive rewards signals just negative arbitrary ones. I was programming at 8 but apparently to be "well rounded" I had to do all this other stuff that non-coders deemed important. Meanwhile there was no "safe base" for me or anyone else who grew up poor. But at least now I can also now see sc…

Respectively - merely coding is not very value adding. Knowing what to code, and why, and how, are. That well rounding is trying to set you up for success. "Just coding" does provide capital sustenance but does not enable one alone to develop into the best version of themselves.

Also - knowing stuff that you don't like is still knowing stuff.

Some people are natural autodidacts, but the school system does not start from the root constraint that everyone can learn by themselves.

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