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Bad code may be to blame for $500M of cryptocurrency losses in seven months

topbitcoin.lv

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Re: Bad code may be to blame for $500M of cryptocurrency losses in seven months

#41

Post by LogicalBorg »

zaroth wrote: post #23

Consider this: Every single Bitcoin mined has either been lost/stolen, or will be lost/stolen, with probability approaching 1 over increasing timespans. I’d argue that since January 2009 about 50% of the ~17M coins minted to-date are lost. But the realization that this number will asymptotically approach 100% of all coins is a bit striking. The reasoning is simple - maintaining control of your coins is surprisingly d…

Once the number of of Bitcoins approaches zero, the finite value of the Bitcoin ecosystem divided by zero coins approaches infinity. This will create a financial singularity that will open a payment gateway to the hell dimension. This dimension is a land of endless opulence and limitless transaction time ruled over by that vengeful daemon, Satoshi Nakamoto. Good luck, Bitcoin users, you're going to need it! jk lol

Re: Bad code may be to blame for $500M of cryptocurrency losses in seven months

#42

Post by bpp »

wereHamster wrote: post #37
zaroth wrote: post #23

Consider this: Every single Bitcoin mined has either been lost/stolen, or will be lost/stolen, with probability approaching 1 over increasing timespans. I’d argue that since January 2009 about 50% of the ~17M coins minted to-date are lost. But the realization that this number will asymptotically approach 100% of all coins is a bit striking. The reasoning is simple - maintaining control of your coins is surprisingly d…

Backing your coins up is very easy, most wallets support BIP32/39/44. Just write the mnemonic down and put it under your mattress. Or a safe if you have one. But seriously, for most people under the mattress is equally safe. I don't understand why anyone would keep a non-trivial amount of coins in a wallet and not have a backup. That's irresponsible.

People losing their life savings because they kept it under their mattress is basically the reason that banks were invented. So I suppose this has all come full circle now.

Re: Bad code may be to blame for $500M of cryptocurrency losses in seven months

#43

Post by DennisP »

zaroth wrote: post #23

Consider this: Every single Bitcoin mined has either been lost/stolen, or will be lost/stolen, with probability approaching 1 over increasing timespans. I’d argue that since January 2009 about 50% of the ~17M coins minted to-date are lost. But the realization that this number will asymptotically approach 100% of all coins is a bit striking. The reasoning is simple - maintaining control of your coins is surprisingly d…

It's not that hard. Do what you would do with a large amount of cash or gold coins: put it in a safe deposit box. Or a private vault, if you're ideologically opposed to banks.

Unlike gold, you can also add redundancy and cryptographic protection, but even without that you can at least be as secure as you are with gold, which plenty of rich people store in vaults without issues.

Re: Bad code may be to blame for $500M of cryptocurrency losses in seven months

#44

Post by wereHamster »

bpp wrote: post #42
wereHamster wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Backing your coins up is very easy, most wallets support BIP32/39/44. Just write the mnemonic down and put it under your mattress. Or a safe if you have one. But seriously, for most people under the mattress is equally safe. I don't understand why anyone would keep a non-trivial amount of coins in a wallet and not have a backup. That's irresponsible.

People losing their life savings because they kept it under their mattress is basically the reason that banks were invented. So I suppose this has all come full circle now.

There are web wallets today where you only have to remember a password, and can recover access if you can prove your identity. Like uhm… banks. If you don't trust yourself to keep the coins safe and backed up then go put them there. No shame in that.

Re: Bad code may be to blame for $500M of cryptocurrency losses in seven months

#45

Post by rejschaap »

zaroth wrote: post #23

Consider this: Every single Bitcoin mined has either been lost/stolen, or will be lost/stolen, with probability approaching 1 over increasing timespans. I’d argue that since January 2009 about 50% of the ~17M coins minted to-date are lost. But the realization that this number will asymptotically approach 100% of all coins is a bit striking. The reasoning is simple - maintaining control of your coins is surprisingly d…

Isn't a stolen coin still part of the supply? Do you mean to to mark them as stolen to prevent them from being used?

Re: Bad code may be to blame for $500M of cryptocurrency losses in seven months

#46

Post by jnordwick »

wereHamster wrote: post #44
bpp wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People losing their life savings because they kept it under their mattress is basically the reason that banks were invented. So I suppose this has all come full circle now.

There are web wallets today where you only have to remember a password, and can recover access if you can prove your identity. Like uhm… banks. If you don't trust yourself to keep the coins safe and backed up then go put them there. No shame in that.

> recover access if you can prove your identity

So hackable, you're saying?

Re: Bad code may be to blame for $500M of cryptocurrency losses in seven months

#47

Post by jnordwick »

dawhizkid wrote: post #39
zaroth wrote: post #23

Consider this: Every single Bitcoin mined has either been lost/stolen, or will be lost/stolen, with probability approaching 1 over increasing timespans. I’d argue that since January 2009 about 50% of the ~17M coins minted to-date are lost. But the realization that this number will asymptotically approach 100% of all coins is a bit striking. The reasoning is simple - maintaining control of your coins is surprisingly d…

Curious how that factor into the price of BTC?

Very severe price swings. Since supply is decreasing, the demand for bitcoin well whip the price all over the place. Fiat currencies can keep a stable price by liquidity injection (they can also drive it to zero that way too).

Bitcoin over corrects by not allowing any new coins to come into existence. Imagine the day there is only a single bitcoin left. Regardless of how small you can split it, massive deflation.

Currencies with a fixed or decreasing supply are a disaster.

Re: Bad code may be to blame for $500M of cryptocurrency losses in seven months

#48

Post by jnordwick »

Retric wrote: post #40
tlrobinson wrote: post #15

On the flip side, the combined market cap* of all cryptocurrencies has increase approximately $400B in the last year. * Yes, I know market cap is a poor metric, but it’s equivalently bad to the $500M “lost” metric used here.

That's assuming the total number of coins still exists. I would not be surprised if 20% of all bitcoins have already been lost. EX: Satoshi's coins could all have been lost at this point.

I wonder how much the rise in btc or eth can be attributed to lost or blacklist coins?

Re: Bad code may be to blame for $500M of cryptocurrency losses in seven months

#49

Post by rulum »

CodeCube wrote: post #27
zaroth wrote: post #23

Consider this: Every single Bitcoin mined has either been lost/stolen, or will be lost/stolen, with probability approaching 1 over increasing timespans. I’d argue that since January 2009 about 50% of the ~17M coins minted to-date are lost. But the realization that this number will asymptotically approach 100% of all coins is a bit striking. The reasoning is simple - maintaining control of your coins is surprisingly d…

This is a really interesting perspective ... though, I'm sure it could be argued that, "it only makes them more rare, and thus valuable!!11!1!" ;)

And that is exactly what you don't want in "money" in a functional economy. You don't want deflation. You want price stability.

So the more it gets artificially valuable, the more useless it becomes for its intended purpose.

Re: Bad code may be to blame for $500M of cryptocurrency losses in seven months

#50

Post by wereHamster »

jnordwick wrote: post #46
wereHamster wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are web wallets today where you only have to remember a password, and can recover access if you can prove your identity. Like uhm… banks. If you don't trust yourself to keep the coins safe and backed up then go put them there. No shame in that.

> recover access if you can prove your identity So hackable, you're saying?

Like banks.

The discussion is turning in circles. People lose coins. Have a backup. Too difficult. Put them in a bank. Banks are hackable. Manage the coins yourself. But then I might lose them.

(you can replace bank with 'trusted third-party', doesn't change the outcome)

Consider the two options: self-managed, or in a trusted third-party. Whichever has the smaller (perceived) risk, that's where you store your coins. Not everybody asses risk equally, and that's fine. My preferred solution may not be the same as your preferred solution. That's fine, still.

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