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How Apple Plans to Root Out Bugs, Revamp iPhone Software

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Re: How Apple Plans to Root Out Bugs, Revamp iPhone Software

#111

Post by dingo_bat »

computerex wrote: post #54
dingo_bat wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Microsoft has a code quality problem at all. On the contrary I'm hard pressed to point at any recent Microsoft software and say it's bug ridden or low quality or badly designed. From iOS to Android to Windows, Microsoft software is excellent.

The constant nagging for updates could be considered a flaw in design. I think Microsoft has always had the reputation of producing buggy software with usability issues. I think they have gotten a lot better at all that.

Definitely stuff like NSA-level telemetry and aggressive updates are bothersome. I was talking more from a programming perspective. They seem to put out comparatively bug-free and performant software. Specially on android, I was surprised to observe that Microsoft's apps are generally better designed and more useful than Google's own stuff.

Re: How Apple Plans to Root Out Bugs, Revamp iPhone Software

#112

Post by askafriend »

abalone wrote: post #67
askafriend wrote: post #7

This comment from a former employee on the iOS team provides some more context around the software quality issues. I think this is the more interesting point around which we should have this discussion. https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/7x0eif/how_apple_pla...

Breaking: Engineer Thinks PM is a Bozo. Film at 11. It's not really context. The real problem here is the premise that "Apple has software quality issues" is taken as a given, without support. Sinofsky makes the point that Apple is operating a such a huge, unfathomable scale and depth -- and this is coming from one of Microsoft's top guys in its heyday -- that even rare bugs that affect 0.01% of users translate into…

Absolutely agree with Sinofsky here to a large extent - there is little precedent at the scale some of these companies are operating at in 2018. My original comment was to more spark a certain type of discussion more than anything else.

It's cool to see other Apple engineers and PMs chime in with their perspective.

Re: How Apple Plans to Root Out Bugs, Revamp iPhone Software

#113

Post by dingo_bat »

AlphaSite wrote: post #57
dingo_bat wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Microsoft has a code quality problem at all. On the contrary I'm hard pressed to point at any recent Microsoft software and say it's bug ridden or low quality or badly designed. From iOS to Android to Windows, Microsoft software is excellent.

I (and most people I know) have had various issues in major widows 10 upgrades.

Is that true? Personally I have been very lucky with the Win10 updates. I am really enjoying how the OS is shaping up to be.

Re: How Apple Plans to Root Out Bugs, Revamp iPhone Software

#114

Post by foobarbazetc »

dingo_bat wrote: post #48
vxNsr wrote: post #5

>The company will continue to update its software annually, but internally engineers will have more discretion to push back features that aren't as polished to the following year. Let's hope Microsoft follows suit. I would much rather have a product that works the same way every time over one that can do 1000 things half the time. Hopefully this will also give them time to reconsider some of the more ill-conceived UX…

I don't think Microsoft has a code quality problem at all. On the contrary I'm hard pressed to point at any recent Microsoft software and say it's bug ridden or low quality or badly designed. From iOS to Android to Windows, Microsoft software is excellent.

Still waiting for this ~2 year old bug to get fixed in Edge:

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platfor...

Re: How Apple Plans to Root Out Bugs, Revamp iPhone Software

#115

Post by marklubi »

rdschouw wrote: post #89
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #12

This is sorely needed. Every iOS update has introduced bugs and UX gremlins that have been dragging Apple's software quality through the mud. Chief among them is Apple Music, since it is a huge part of Apple's service initiative. - Their latest update now wastes space to tell me it isn't playing anything! - Often times just refuses to work. No error, no graceful recover. Just silence. https://imgur.com/a/VrO1Y - Aird…

Yea, I hear you. For me, Apple Music randomly pauses my music when it is on bluetooth or ipod dock every 60-90s. Googling it revealed that I am not alone and this issue has been going on since the introduction of Apple Music app. Every release I try again, but no fix so far.

Speculating here, but I suspect that it's an app in the "background" that is causing the issue.

As much as I like Sonos, it exhibits bad behavior with its background task that requests priority audio. If I have the app even running (even in the background, but haven't force quit it), it will interrupt the stereo in my car if I'm trying to listen to terrestrial radio and keep forcing CarPlay to open until I force quit the app.

Re: How Apple Plans to Root Out Bugs, Revamp iPhone Software

#116

Post by gigatexal »

objclxt wrote: post #34
askafriend wrote: post #7

This comment from a former employee on the iOS team provides some more context around the software quality issues. I think this is the more interesting point around which we should have this discussion. https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/7x0eif/how_apple_pla...

I have a slightly different perspective (I worked on iOS 7 - 11). One of the things about Apple that's different to many of the other tech conglomerates is that engineering teams are given huge freedom to work the way they want (for better and for worse). Because engineering is so fragmented you should always take what one person says about the process with a pinch of salt. So that means there are hundreds of source…

Wow. That sounds way too chaotic.

Re: How Apple Plans to Root Out Bugs, Revamp iPhone Software

#117

Post by cwyers »

closeparen wrote: post #90
cwyers wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing could be worked on if it wasn’t in Radar with a priority number attached and signed off by the teams’ EPM. Is this supposed to sound bad? Because it just sounds... professional.

It sounds professional to need permission to spend time on something? I typically associate professionalism with the model where you’re accountable to the functionality, impact, quality, and health of your components, with an EM supporting your negotiations around scope and timelines, and letting you budget your own time.

I mean, nothing in the quote suggests that programmers can't submit items to Radar, that they can't lobby for them to be assigned a high priority, etc. Pretty much every software project beyond a certain scale uses an issue tracker of some sort.

Re: How Apple Plans to Root Out Bugs, Revamp iPhone Software

#118

Post by vxNsr »

dingo_bat wrote: post #48
vxNsr wrote: post #5

>The company will continue to update its software annually, but internally engineers will have more discretion to push back features that aren't as polished to the following year. Let's hope Microsoft follows suit. I would much rather have a product that works the same way every time over one that can do 1000 things half the time. Hopefully this will also give them time to reconsider some of the more ill-conceived UX…

I don't think Microsoft has a code quality problem at all. On the contrary I'm hard pressed to point at any recent Microsoft software and say it's bug ridden or low quality or badly designed. From iOS to Android to Windows, Microsoft software is excellent.

It could just be because of the totally inconsistent UI across Win10 that I feel like things are more broken than they are...

Also to point to a specific problem, OneNote in iOS takes ages to open and get a note ready, I don't know what it is but it's the only app that takes that long to open.

Re: How Apple Plans to Root Out Bugs, Revamp iPhone Software

#119

Post by jorblumesea »

throwaway7187 wrote: post #63
askafriend wrote: post #7

This comment from a former employee on the iOS team provides some more context around the software quality issues. I think this is the more interesting point around which we should have this discussion. https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/7x0eif/how_apple_pla...

Perfect time for the ol' throwaway... I'm a former iOS EPM (not speaking for Apple, obviously, since I don't work there anymore), and although the Reddit commenter got the atmosphere of constant crisis right, he/she is misplacing the blame and misunderstanding the power dynamic. EPMs at Apple essentially have zero power over engineers' workload. They take the list of stuff the engineering managers said they want to g…

I think the craziest thing about this comment is how juxtaposed it is to the original one. How you could have such divergent opinions on org structure or team dynamic is mind blowing.

Re: How Apple Plans to Root Out Bugs, Revamp iPhone Software

#120

Post by danielrhodes »

dingo_bat wrote: post #48
vxNsr wrote: post #5

>The company will continue to update its software annually, but internally engineers will have more discretion to push back features that aren't as polished to the following year. Let's hope Microsoft follows suit. I would much rather have a product that works the same way every time over one that can do 1000 things half the time. Hopefully this will also give them time to reconsider some of the more ill-conceived UX…

I don't think Microsoft has a code quality problem at all. On the contrary I'm hard pressed to point at any recent Microsoft software and say it's bug ridden or low quality or badly designed. From iOS to Android to Windows, Microsoft software is excellent.

Outlook for Mac crashes every time I try to create an appointment. I have to use a combination of the Office 365 and the desktop version because they don’t have overlapping features. I am perhaps prone to hyperbole, but it’s amateur hour in Redmond.
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