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Safe injection sites in San Francisco could be first in the US

fox59.com

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Re: Safe injection sites in San Francisco could be first in the US

#31

Post by Jdam »

zenbit wrote: post #28

In 2016 there were 204 deaths due to substance abuse in North Rhine-Westphalia (NRW), with ~17m inhabitants Germany's most populous state. That same year there were 321 deaths in Bavaria. Bavaria has a population of only ~12m and in general has a much lower crime rate than NRW. The difference in deaths is often attributed to the fact that there are safe injection sites in NRW while there are none in Bavaria.

That’s because Bavaria is close to the Czech republic and the bavarian/czech border is a well known import corridor. Google further info on that, if you’re interested. Also, I invite you to compare the NRW numbers to the Berlin ones.

Re: Safe injection sites in San Francisco could be first in the US

#32

Post by jlangenauer »

formol wrote: post #3

The very lefty mayor of Paris launched one « safe site » in the city. Results : disneyland for drug dealers and addicts in the area, dead people (OD) in the street, noise, fights...

As a counterpoint, the Medically Supervised Injecting Room in Kings Cross (Sydney) has quite radically transformed the area for the better - people who used to live there before it opened tell of sometimes walking over the bodies of addicts who'd OD'd on the streets, and of seeing used syringes everywhere. Now, you'd hardly ever see these things.

(I'd link to the Wikipedia article, but it seems to be the subject of an edit war between a couple of groups with agendas to push, so is best ignored.)

Re: Safe injection sites in San Francisco could be first in the US

#33

Post by lostlogin »

ggg9990 wrote: post #8
AnabeeKnox wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be a hard sell to use Vancouver as a model. It has an area which is perhaps the most public display of social decay I've ever encounted in a first-world city, principally from drug abuse.

As someone with no stake in this, I would rather have all of that decay in one place I can avoid rather than strewn about my city.

Hamsterdam.

In all seriousness, watch The Wire. It gets you thinking and covers the topic well.

Re: Safe injection sites in San Francisco could be first in the US

#34

Post by chx »

Phanyxx wrote: post #5

Here in Vancouver the safe injection sites have saved countless lives and drastically lowered needle sharing. There's a big misconception that safe injection sites somehow promote drug use. They save lives and give people a legitimate pathway to get clean if they choose to. Do the right thing, SF!

> the safe injection sites

Very interesting, I wanted to fix your plural because I only knew of Insite but turns out there are now two, there's Powell Street Getaway since last summer. http://www.vch.ca/public-health/harm-reduction/supervised-in...

Re: Safe injection sites in San Francisco could be first in the US

#35

Post by zenbit »

Jdam wrote: post #31
zenbit wrote: post #28

In 2016 there were 204 deaths due to substance abuse in North Rhine-Westphalia (NRW), with ~17m inhabitants Germany's most populous state. That same year there were 321 deaths in Bavaria. Bavaria has a population of only ~12m and in general has a much lower crime rate than NRW. The difference in deaths is often attributed to the fact that there are safe injection sites in NRW while there are none in Bavaria.

That’s because Bavaria is close to the Czech republic and the bavarian/czech border is a well known import corridor. Google further info on that, if you’re interested. Also, I invite you to compare the NRW numbers to the Berlin ones.

NRW borders the Netherlands, a country with easy drug access as well. And yes, deaths per capita are much higher in Germany's city-states (Berlin, Hamburg, Bremen). But please go ahead and compare numbers on a per-city basis (2016 numbers). You will note that Munich (62 deaths, 1.4m inhabitants, ~44 deaths per capita) is very much comparable to Berlin (167 deaths, 3.5m inhabitants, ~48 deaths per capita).

Re: Safe injection sites in San Francisco could be first in the US

#36

Post by boudin »

Andrex wrote: post #7
formol wrote: post #3

The very lefty mayor of Paris launched one « safe site » in the city. Results : disneyland for drug dealers and addicts in the area, dead people (OD) in the street, noise, fights...

Sources for this would be very helpful. Always interested in alternative viewpoints!

I've never seen sources backing up what he says. According to this source results are positive in term of reducing consumption in streets and syringes found in streets. It also allowed to diagnose users with transmissible diseases and provide treatments.

Neighbours of the injection site do complain of increase disturbance in the area but it seems due to the fact that it's the only site in Paris.

Since the one opened in Paris, another one opened in Strasbourg and one is gonna open in Bordeaux this year

http://mobile.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2017/10/12/premiere...

There must be a lot more data from sites in Germany, Netherlands and Switzerland that has been opened for much longer.

Re: Safe injection sites in San Francisco could be first in the US

#37

Post by tobltobs »

Jdam wrote: post #31
zenbit wrote: post #28

In 2016 there were 204 deaths due to substance abuse in North Rhine-Westphalia (NRW), with ~17m inhabitants Germany's most populous state. That same year there were 321 deaths in Bavaria. Bavaria has a population of only ~12m and in general has a much lower crime rate than NRW. The difference in deaths is often attributed to the fact that there are safe injection sites in NRW while there are none in Bavaria.

That’s because Bavaria is close to the Czech republic and the bavarian/czech border is a well known import corridor. Google further info on that, if you’re interested. Also, I invite you to compare the NRW numbers to the Berlin ones.

The drug importers don't sell their stuff along their import corridors. They bring it to next distribution center before they start splitting it up. according your logic Texas would be one of the states with a high drug overdose mortality. You are confusing small scale crystal meth smuggling with large scale opiate importing.

Re: Safe injection sites in San Francisco could be first in the US

#38

Post by chx »

zapita wrote: post #18
Andrex wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sources for this would be very helpful. Always interested in alternative viewpoints!

Here is a recent study of drug consumption room programs across Europe (including the one in Paris), and their impact so far. http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/topics/pods/drug-consumption-roo... Their analysis seems pretty balanced, and seems to skew positive. It definitely contradicts the negative comment you're responding to.

The truthiness of that comment can be pretty safely derived from the derisive word "lefty".

Re: Safe injection sites in San Francisco could be first in the US

#39

Post by blauditore »

tcj_phx wrote: post #13

In days gone by, heroin addicts knew how much heroin they needed to 'stay well'. A major factor in the escalation of deaths in the modern era is the contamination of the street pharmacy's heroin supply with more potent synthetic opioids (fentanyl, etc). Overdoses happen when street drugs are more potent than the user expects, or when the user's tolerance has changed. Two factors in my girlfriend's OD were having been…

> Until the politicians find courage to acknowledge that it was a mistake to trust organized crime to control the supply of addictive substances, [...]

What would be a better solution in your opinion? Legalizing it, or allowing it with prescription? I see some problems with those alternatives as well; there's probably no magic bullet here.

Re: Safe injection sites in San Francisco could be first in the US

#40

Post by folli »

A well written chronology of the rise and decline of the Needle Park in Zurich, Switzerland:

Chapter 1: https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/extern/storytelling/needletraum...

Chapter 2: https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/extern/storytelling/needletraum...

Chapter 3: https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/extern/storytelling/needletraum...

Chapter 4: https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/extern/storytelling/needletraum...

Methadone programs and safe injection sites were crucial elements in resolving the tragedy.

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