How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare? • Hacker News Board

Re: How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare?

#311

Post by TheKarateKid » Sun, Feb 11, 2018, 6:42 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #303

cornholio wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And then we have XMPP which doesn't support things like video or voice calling The Jingle extension is about a decade old and it's what Google based its support on. They even played ball for a while and released a good quality open libjingle, then decided that fighting spam from the other open XMPP networks is not worth their time and killed the whole openness concept - despite being an orders of magnitude simpler…

> I think now the only escape from the walled gardens is regulatory pressure forcing interconnect of the larger players Sounds good on paper, sure, but ultimately it will end up being a predictable bureaucratic mess, causing more harm than good: a) The mandatory 'open' standard that gets produced will end up being designed by committees of management teams from 6-7 major companies, each with their own list of feature…

cornholio brings up a really good point. The fact that Whatsapp and other messaging apps have significant more European marketshare and growth rates than in other parts of the world could make an EU regulation's effect felt around the world, much like the USB one.

Re: How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare?

#312

Post by TheKarateKid » Sun, Feb 11, 2018, 6:45 PM UTC

jhasse wrote: post #157

Freak_NL wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal and WhatsApp require a smartphone though, so not fully cross platform, and tied to their (closed) client software. Not sure if Telegram requires a smartphone too, but it does seem to require a phone number at least.

A smartphone isnt required, only a telephone number for authentification.

Incorrect. Whatsapp refuses to open on my iPad and isn't even available in the App Store. The only reason it got on there was a glitch in Apple's app sync which must've auto-downloaded it since I have it on my iPhone.

Re: How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare?

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Post by smt88 » Sun, Feb 11, 2018, 6:53 PM UTC

ossguy wrote: post #271

smt88 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a cynical joke, but for those people who don't use Voice, it's sadly what's really happening. I want to get off Google products for many reasons, but the main reason is becoming that I can't trust them to listen to users.

For people that use Google Voice, that's often the hardest Google service to leave. You can get similar features with https://jmp.chat/ - it supports text and picture messaging (and voicemail transcription) and you can port in your Google Voice number to make the transition seamless for your contacts.

But how do I know they'll be around in a year or let me save my number?

Re: How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare?

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Post by johnmarcus » Sun, Feb 11, 2018, 6:54 PM UTC

Wtf are you talking about? I use it with almost everyone, inside and out of the org. Issues are usually local internet connection issues. And it's free, which is nice. There are pay for services I suppose are better, once others are set up with it. But I love Hangouts.

Re: How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare?

#315

Post by olfactory » Sun, Feb 11, 2018, 6:58 PM UTC

This is one more bit of evidence that Google is on the way down. When basic product management is too boring to take seriously, the company is just coasting along on past glories and hype. Yahoo was in that situation for years before it imploded.

Re: How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare?

#316

Post by ocdtrekkie » Sun, Feb 11, 2018, 7:03 PM UTC

dbdr wrote: post #300

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is what happened back in the day. AOL was forced to add interoperability with competitors. But our government today is unwilling to step in front of corporations on behalf of the people.

HN readers don't all have the same government. I assume you mean the US one. The EU has in some cases proved to be willing to confront corporations and/or to defend some consumers right. Not always or in the most efficient way, but here's hoping that it will continue and improve on that path. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Corp_v_Commission

I'm well aware, and really happy about the work the EU's competition commission is doing. Unfortunately, for US-based corporations, global change is unlikely to happen until the US steps in.

Re: How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare?

#317

Post by LamaOfRuin » Sun, Feb 11, 2018, 7:07 PM UTC

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #304

LamaOfRuin wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. I was assuming most people have at least one phone number they want to keep long term (even if it's not always active with their cell). Note though that signal will also work fine with non-traditional services that provide free or much cheaper phone numbers like google voice (US), skype, or twilio. It is true though that you do need to maintain a phone number. That is one of the trade-offs they made to allow it…

How does the phone number tie-in make it usable? Phone numbers and SIM cards are about the most user hostile thing I can possibly think of. What's wrong with the way Threema does it for instance, which is essentially to bind the identity to a key pair that you can back up?

Threema appears to optionally do the exact same thing. Signal eschews the flexibility to ensure more universal usability by being able to assume that anyone who uses signal can be associated with their phone number. An assumption that holds for the vast vast majority of potential users.

Re: How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare?

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Post by Shoothe » Sun, Feb 11, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

ossguy wrote: post #267

detaro wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recommendations for good clients for desktop systems? Maybe my google-fu is particularly weak today, but I couldn't find a clear statements which clients outside conversations.im fullfill those (obviously only the IM suite, since mobile wouldn't apply)

https://gajim.org/ tends to be best for desktop (binaries exist for most desktop OSes). For macOS, you may want to try Adium or Psi. Or you can use https://movim.eu/ which, though a web client, has fairly good feature support as well.

I second Gajim especially 1.0.0 version that looks good. There is also https://dino.im but that's still in alpha.

Re: How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare?

#319

Post by Shoothe » Sun, Feb 11, 2018, 7:18 PM UTC

rident wrote: post #85

signal11 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you didn't use Jabber, the #1 reason I recommended Google Talk was that it was very, very lightweight at a time when MSN Messenger and friends were adding stickers and other teenager/young-adult friendly* features. Today, ironically your choices for relatively straightforward messaging on the PC/Mac are: iMessage (Mac only), Skype for Business (the consumer client is too distracting for words), Whatsapp Web,…

Oh man, Slack really is a beast isn't it? I do like the multiple network nature of it (even though everything is saved to Slack's servers) but I find it hard to believe it does so little for it's footprint. They too though made a Google-like transition and went from an open protocol (IRC/XMPP) to a closed/custom API. At least here, the server admin can enable those protocols if they want and the API seems to offer en…

> They too though made a Google-like transition and went from an open protocol (IRC/XMPP) to a closed/custom API. At least here, the server admin can enable those protocols if they want and the API seems to offer enough features that someone could probably integrate Slack into another IRC-like client.

As for the XMPP gateway it's just barely usable. From my personal experience it even tended to drop messages from time to time. It seems Slack added it just to claim XMPP compatibility. Just look at where is Slack placed in this ranking https://conversations.im/compliance/

Re: How did Google Talk change from a dream to a nightmare?

#320

Post by Shoothe » Sun, Feb 11, 2018, 7:24 PM UTC

pasbesoin wrote: post #82

rident wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Duo is a mobile only video/voice chat app that uses a experimental transport protocol. Allo is a text chat app with lots of options for stickers and end-to-end encryption disabled by default. I don't have a strong need for either of these apps.

Well, my Motorola G5+, purchased in August and on 7.0, came with an icon for Duo prominently displayed. Hangouts not installed by default. (Nor Allo, I now see.) So, Hangouts is not facing some declared or expected EOL, at this point?

I can confirm. New Android phones ship with Duo and no Hangouts.