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Altered Carbon – All the DNA of great science-fiction with some missing links

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Re: Altered Carbon – All the DNA of great science-fiction with some missing links

#21
I'm cribbing part of what I wrote about the adaptation on Ars Technica. Spoilers follow, and I have no spoiler tags here.

Worst change from the book: Making Quellcrist Falconer into a technophobe and the personal love interest of long-ago Kovacs. In the book she's a famous dead[1] figure from history who a) admirably fought on the losing side of a rebellion and b) wrote a lot of quotable things. She's like a cross between William Wallace and Sun Tzu. Falconer thought that her followers could play the long game against unjust power, since human immortality made time irrelevant; she didn't argue that immortality itself was wrong. In the series she's just that tired stock character, the pseudo-wise reactionary who argues that there are Things Man Was Not Meant to Know.

In the book Kovacs seems to love Falconer's ideas, but she lived before him and they weren't a romantic item. He's not interested in personally trying to fight a rebellion against the whole Protectorate, either. He's just looking out for his own skin and a few people he cares about.

Making Rei into Kovacs's sister was unnecessary and again went directly against the tone of the original: it made Kovacs sad and conflicted instead of furious and calculating when it comes to permanently stopping her.

The series is visually gorgeous, and if you haven't come into the series with the expectation that the same ideas and noirish conventions will be maintained from the book (as I did), you may well enjoy it better for that.

[1] Yes, I read the later Woken Furies where Falconer seems to "come back" in a way, but an event from decades after Altered Carbon shouldn't have been shoehorned into the Altered Carbon adaptation this way. Or at least I thought it shouldn't have been.

Re: Altered Carbon – All the DNA of great science-fiction with some missing links

#22
post #2

I am currently about 5 episodes in and I am enjoying it so far. The 5th episode has kinda lost some of the excitement that the first 4 had, but I'm hoping it it picks up again. I know that this series is based on a book, and I have been looking for more sci-fi books to read. Does anyone have any insight on how the TV series compares to the book and whether it is worth reading?

I thought the book was 3rd rate "genre" (in the worst way) fiction.

Re: Altered Carbon – All the DNA of great science-fiction with some missing links

#23

A very faithful adaptation that reflects most of the strengths (and weaknesses) of the source material. For example the ending felt a bit like a false summit. Solving the Bancroft murder should have been the climax of this detective novel, but the story keeps going and feels awkward afterwards. I had forgotten how badly the story lost me in the books until I was watching this show and I couldn't remember what I shoul…

The story isn’t about the murder, though, it’s about power. If the novel (and the show) failed to sell you on that, it’s a legitimate complaint.

The book definitely does not fail in this regard. The very way the murder is solved and presented to Bancroft is certainly not the stock "mystery solved, justice is restored" ending, though the mystery is solved, and justice is indeed sort of restored.

Re: Altered Carbon – All the DNA of great science-fiction with some missing links

#24
post #8

The show is mostly _fun_, but I definitely wouldn't call it a _great_ or well-made show, apart from the visuals. Too much clunky dialogue and half-baked subplots. In particular, there's a certain traumatized daughter whose plot never makes sense at any turn. The show seems to expect us to already know and have a major emotional investment in a character who we've never seen speak and who seems to have almost no tangi…

Personally, I really liked altered carbon. The acting was good, the sets great, and the story intriguing. The show doesn’t go out of its way to surprise you like GoT, but it had enough mysteries and twists to keep things interesting.

The only lesser part for me wasn’t the story but the technology. I’m ok with unexplained advanced tech, but it has to make sense. Why are the only things run by advanced better-than-human AI’s hotels and brothels? Why is it so trivial to transfer minds between bodies but so difficult to make a simple backup? Why are prosthetic replacement arms so powerful they can crush metal, and why if that tech is available don’t the special ops use bodies which are all-prosthetic? Too many things didn’t make sense.

Re: Altered Carbon – All the DNA of great science-fiction with some missing links

#25
post #24
post #8

The show is mostly _fun_, but I definitely wouldn't call it a _great_ or well-made show, apart from the visuals. Too much clunky dialogue and half-baked subplots. In particular, there's a certain traumatized daughter whose plot never makes sense at any turn. The show seems to expect us to already know and have a major emotional investment in a character who we've never seen speak and who seems to have almost no tangi…

Personally, I really liked altered carbon. The acting was good, the sets great, and the story intriguing. The show doesn’t go out of its way to surprise you like GoT, but it had enough mysteries and twists to keep things interesting. The only lesser part for me wasn’t the story but the technology. I’m ok with unexplained advanced tech, but it has to make sense. Why are the only things run by advanced better-than-huma…

The last two bother me especially. Only thing I can think of is that bodies are expendable and for police that means good second skins, they get first or second dibs. No need for cyborg parts when blasters kick so much butt.

The stack backup reasoning is lame, "too expensive" is not really defining, and if a stack can be transferred to another stack, having two with one in a strongbox seems logical. You possibly lose memories then, but live on. It seems to come down mostly to money and socioeconomic disparity. At one point someone says, fixing a broken leg is too expensive. That's ridiculous

Re: Altered Carbon – All the DNA of great science-fiction with some missing links

#26

I'm cribbing part of what I wrote about the adaptation on Ars Technica. Spoilers follow, and I have no spoiler tags here. Worst change from the book: Making Quellcrist Falconer into a technophobe and the personal love interest of long-ago Kovacs. In the book she's a famous dead[1] figure from history who a) admirably fought on the losing side of a rebellion and b) wrote a lot of quotable things. She's like a cross be…

I have not read the book or watched the show, though I want to. Should I watch first then read the book?

Re: Altered Carbon – All the DNA of great science-fiction with some missing links

#27
post #8

The show is mostly _fun_, but I definitely wouldn't call it a _great_ or well-made show, apart from the visuals. Too much clunky dialogue and half-baked subplots. In particular, there's a certain traumatized daughter whose plot never makes sense at any turn. The show seems to expect us to already know and have a major emotional investment in a character who we've never seen speak and who seems to have almost no tangi…

Laughably bad, actually, esp. if you cut your teeth growing up on Neuromancer, Snowcrash, etc. I honestly thought it was written by a teenager, the scene with the Ai's playing poker was when it went off the cliff for me.

Philip K Dick's Electric Dreams, however, is worthwhile and a nice bookend to the new season of Black Mirror.

Re: Altered Carbon – All the DNA of great science-fiction with some missing links

#28
post #24
post #8

The show is mostly _fun_, but I definitely wouldn't call it a _great_ or well-made show, apart from the visuals. Too much clunky dialogue and half-baked subplots. In particular, there's a certain traumatized daughter whose plot never makes sense at any turn. The show seems to expect us to already know and have a major emotional investment in a character who we've never seen speak and who seems to have almost no tangi…

Personally, I really liked altered carbon. The acting was good, the sets great, and the story intriguing. The show doesn’t go out of its way to surprise you like GoT, but it had enough mysteries and twists to keep things interesting. The only lesser part for me wasn’t the story but the technology. I’m ok with unexplained advanced tech, but it has to make sense. Why are the only things run by advanced better-than-huma…

I re-read the book a few weeks ago in anticipation of the series. The inconsistencies that you notice are real and present in the source material. I didn't notice them so much the first time I read the book 10+ years ago. The relentless action was fresh the first time around and helped paper over weaknesses in the logic of the world. Also I've apparently become less able to overlook internal inconsistencies with time.

The vast majority of SF uses technologies as cool set props for minor variations on familiar kinds of stories and social dynamics. Star Trek was/is terrible about this too. It's hard for a creator to model the higher-order effects that would be introduced from (e.g.) starships, teleporters, AI, or what-have-you. Do that hard work too well and most of the audience won't be able to understand what's going on without lengthy infodumps. The only current show I can think of that tries to show how technologies could drastically change societies is Black Mirror. Almost everything else is "familiar social dynamics, Amazing Gizmos are just props for the adventure." The proportion of internally consistent works is somewhat higher in written SF, but I'd say over half still follows the Amazing Gizmos Somehow Leave Society Basically Familiar template.

Re: Altered Carbon – All the DNA of great science-fiction with some missing links

#29
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The story isn’t about the murder, though, it’s about power. If the novel (and the show) failed to sell you on that, it’s a legitimate complaint.

The book definitely does not fail in this regard. The very way the murder is solved and presented to Bancroft is certainly not the stock "mystery solved, justice is restored" ending, though the mystery is solved, and justice is indeed sort of restored.

It's quite a lot like Fletch, in a weird way

Re: Altered Carbon – All the DNA of great science-fiction with some missing links

#30

I'm cribbing part of what I wrote about the adaptation on Ars Technica. Spoilers follow, and I have no spoiler tags here. Worst change from the book: Making Quellcrist Falconer into a technophobe and the personal love interest of long-ago Kovacs. In the book she's a famous dead[1] figure from history who a) admirably fought on the losing side of a rebellion and b) wrote a lot of quotable things. She's like a cross be…

I have not read the book or watched the show, though I want to. Should I watch first then read the book?

You should be fine watching the show first.

Do you feel more satisfied with fiction when powerful villains are, by some miraculous stroke of luck, brought to justice? Or do you feel more satisfied with the logical consistency of stories where the powerful can mostly get away with crimes, because that's what power is?

The latter is more like the book and noir-ish fiction in general. I also prefer the latter, perhaps because the first is just so much more common. Maybe if the standard Hollywood ending had powerful villains crushing attempts to bring them to justice I'd have an affinity for "plucky underdog triumphs against the odds" stories. But the plucky underdog pulls off an improbable win so often in popular entertainment that I'm tired of it. To believe that underdogs are actually underdogs I need to see them lose more often than they win.

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