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Nuklear: A single-header ANSI C GUI library

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Re: Nuklear: A single-header ANSI C GUI library

#61

Post by banachtarski »

dangerbird2 wrote: post #28
kilpikaarna wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially when that single header is over 13k lines and reimplements half the standard library. This looks pretty cool and I have an idea for an OpenGL project that needs a GUI, so I'll probably try it out at some point, but it doesn't really seem as lean and straightforward as the blurb implies...

Reimplementing parts of the standard library is important for applications where you don't neccessarily have access to a standards-compliant libc (read Windows), or if you have need custom malloc/free implementations. Similar techniques are used in automake and similar build generators to provide non-standard libc function implementations. precompiled headers can help with the fact that good portions of the header wi…

I develop on linux primarily but occasionally windows also. The stdlib is totally fine! When did you last compile on Windows? 2011?

Re: Nuklear: A single-header ANSI C GUI library

#62

Post by bastijn »

michael_storm wrote: post #59
bastijn wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accessibility is always important to mention, which is why we should thank you for reminding us. In return, you have to understand that not every next important application will be used by blind people or people with disabilities, and as of such there is still room for people to develop new UI toolkits if they so please. Again, thanks for reminding everybody. People need to think about it. Your advice could be toned…

People with disabilities don’t need random developers determining a priori whether or not they’ll be able to use the same software as everyone else. People with disabilities aren’t an afterthought; they’re not a bonus; it’s a requirement to produce software that everyone can use — not just people like you. If it were more work to produce software for people of another race than yourself, would you be making the same…

Did you read my comment below? I made the comment with application developers in mind that develop applications for job types that require sight as a first job requirement (pilots, doctors, ...).

I’m the last to say blind people are an afterthought which is why I thanked the original commenter for his reminder. I merely want to bring some nuance that there are always exceptions.

Re: Nuklear: A single-header ANSI C GUI library

#63

Post by mwcampbell »

bastijn wrote: post #62
michael_storm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with disabilities don’t need random developers determining a priori whether or not they’ll be able to use the same software as everyone else. People with disabilities aren’t an afterthought; they’re not a bonus; it’s a requirement to produce software that everyone can use — not just people like you. If it were more work to produce software for people of another race than yourself, would you be making the same…

Did you read my comment below? I made the comment with application developers in mind that develop applications for job types that require sight as a first job requirement (pilots, doctors, ...). I’m the last to say blind people are an afterthought which is why I thanked the original commenter for his reminder. I merely want to bring some nuance that there are always exceptions.

And to reiterate, I agree with that nuance and will do my best to apply it to future comments.

Re: Nuklear: A single-header ANSI C GUI library

#64

Post by michael_storm »

bastijn wrote: post #62
michael_storm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with disabilities don’t need random developers determining a priori whether or not they’ll be able to use the same software as everyone else. People with disabilities aren’t an afterthought; they’re not a bonus; it’s a requirement to produce software that everyone can use — not just people like you. If it were more work to produce software for people of another race than yourself, would you be making the same…

Did you read my comment below? I made the comment with application developers in mind that develop applications for job types that require sight as a first job requirement (pilots, doctors, ...). I’m the last to say blind people are an afterthought which is why I thanked the original commenter for his reminder. I merely want to bring some nuance that there are always exceptions.

I’m disagreeing with that nuance. I’m saying that blind people should be able to enjoy the same things that sighted people can, rather than developers deciding for them whether or not blind people are in the target market.

Re: Nuklear: A single-header ANSI C GUI library

#66

Post by gkya »

bastijn wrote: post #24
mwcampbell wrote: post #17

Before you use this in your next important application, please read the comment on accessibility that I posted the other day on the LCUI thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16329640

Accessibility is always important to mention, which is why we should thank you for reminding us. In return, you have to understand that not every next important application will be used by blind people or people with disabilities, and as of such there is still room for people to develop new UI toolkits if they so please. Again, thanks for reminding everybody. People need to think about it. Your advice could be toned…

A decent UI toolkit has accessibility built in, so using such toolkit and adhering to the platforms design language takes you quite far in not obstructing disabled people. Something like an interactive website, for example, if one follows good practices, is effortlesly disabled-friendly.

Re: Nuklear: A single-header ANSI C GUI library

#67

Post by mwcampbell »

gkya wrote: post #66
bastijn wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accessibility is always important to mention, which is why we should thank you for reminding us. In return, you have to understand that not every next important application will be used by blind people or people with disabilities, and as of such there is still room for people to develop new UI toolkits if they so please. Again, thanks for reminding everybody. People need to think about it. Your advice could be toned…

A decent UI toolkit has accessibility built in, so using such toolkit and adhering to the platforms design language takes you quite far in not obstructing disabled people. Something like an interactive website, for example, if one follows good practices, is effortlesly disabled-friendly.

A good UI toolkit with built-in accessibility helps, but in non-trivial applications, it still takes thought to make sure you use the toolkit correctly. In my experience, there are myriad ways to accidentally mess up accessibility. So I wouldn't use words like "effortless".

Re: Nuklear: A single-header ANSI C GUI library

#68

Post by mwcampbell »

michael_storm wrote: post #64
bastijn wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read my comment below? I made the comment with application developers in mind that develop applications for job types that require sight as a first job requirement (pilots, doctors, ...). I’m the last to say blind people are an afterthought which is why I thanked the original commenter for his reminder. I merely want to bring some nuance that there are always exceptions.

I’m disagreeing with that nuance. I’m saying that blind people should be able to enjoy the same things that sighted people can, rather than developers deciding for them whether or not blind people are in the target market.

Your strident advocacy is admirable, and that's why I upvoted your first comment.

But we have to deal with reality here. Some tasks simply require normal sight. Believe me, as a legally blind person myself, I wish I could drive, but I understand why I can't and accept it. The same applies for some software applications. So all I can ask is that developers pay attention to accessibility unless there's some reason why it just won't work for their application. I think that's what your interlocutor is getting at as well.

Re: Nuklear: A single-header ANSI C GUI library

#69

Post by ComputerGuru »

Reposting from a previous thread:

I have not had a chance to try it out for myself yet, but I have recently learned that webkit includes a direct-to-opengl renderer such that one can skip the Qt or GTK backend and write HTML/CSS/JS that outputs to the framebuffer directly.

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