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Cryonics Myths

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Re: Cryonics Myths

#41

Post by OscarCunningham »

philwelch wrote: post #18
justinalanbass wrote: post #2

Being an avid cryonicist, I have attempted to express these myths to a wide variety of people. The very few and open-minded folks that will move past utter dismissal usually have a deep and visceral illogical fear of death - or a deep and visceral religious belief in the afterlife. These "Cryonics Myths Debunked" tend to only further convince those who are likely to choose Cryonics anyways. There must be a better way…

Funny, I find that the cryonics advocates are the ones with the deep and visceral illogical fear of death. That’s why one signs up for cryonics, right? Being at peace with one’s mortality removes the selfish “rational” incentive for cryonics. Individual people are replaceable, and don’t belong outside of their own time. If you want to advocate cryonics for the masses, think about what you would do if you had to live…

One might as well say that being at peace with one's hunger removes the selfish "rational" incentive for food.

Re: Cryonics Myths

#42

Post by OscarCunningham »

nordsieck wrote: post #23
justinalanbass wrote: post #2

Being an avid cryonicist, I have attempted to express these myths to a wide variety of people. The very few and open-minded folks that will move past utter dismissal usually have a deep and visceral illogical fear of death - or a deep and visceral religious belief in the afterlife. These "Cryonics Myths Debunked" tend to only further convince those who are likely to choose Cryonics anyways. There must be a better way…

In principle I could be on board with cryonics, but I have one principled objection that I can't seem to get around: I see no reason why anyone with the ability to re-animate/heal cryo-preserved strangers would do so.

Presumably they can be paid to do so from the same fund whose interest is being used to keep the bodies frozen.

Re: Cryonics Myths

#43

Post by Wh1zz »

placebo wrote: post #40
reasonattlm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://dx.doi.org/10.1089/rej.2014.1636 "Can memory be retained after cryopreservation? Our research has attempted to answer this long-standing question by using the nematode worm Caenorhabditis elegans, a well-known model organism for biological research that has generated revolutionary findings but has not been tested for memory retention after cryopreservation. Our study's goal was to test C. elegans' memory recal…

Thank you, that's news to me. While I still remain skeptical due to the orders of magnitude of complexity in the gap between C. elegans and humans, it definitely calls for a reassessment of the probability I have previously attached to it. This is why I like HN...

Even if the probability is astronomical, isn't a non-zero probability better than null? Sure there is a cost, but is it that high that you couldn't justify taking the chance, and instead just blowing it on a couple other fancy things or whatever?

Re: Cryonics Myths

#44

Post by Wh1zz »

philwelch wrote: post #38
Momquist wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to advocate cryonics for the masses, think about what you would do if you had to live in a world with the reanimated masses of the 18th century. Sounds like Riverworld. I think it could be quite interesting. But anyway, whether it's a potential mess or not is something for our future descendants to decide on. Advocating cryonics today doesn't imply that our descendants, even if they have the technology,…

Or I could just accept my mortality and let my corpse go to some productive use, like organ donation or teaching medical students, rather than investing in some narcissistic notion of being resurrected.

As romantic as "coming to peace with mortality" might sound, I enjoy living life too much to idly accept that i will at some point feel the breeze in my hair for the last time, or never again smell a flower's perfume, or gaze on a beautiful view. Sure, if everything fails, i will have to accept it. But why not give my everything in the mission of taking life further, even if i can help it by an atomic amount? What if there were as many great minds working on solving aging as there are working on cancer research? Why not try and bring a contribution? What if everyone else capable would have the same realisation? Why sit idly and wait to be carried by waves to nothing at all?

Re: Cryonics Myths

#45

Post by Wh1zz »

philwelch wrote: post #24
reasonattlm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also were born in the past. Are you not comfortable with death by your own declaration? So why do you work to avoid it, rather than embracing it? Why are you still alive? Are you not, by your own ethics, outside your time, creating a mess, and less valuable than people born after you? Yet you undertake continual efforts to remain alive, embracing the use of food and medicine - technologies developed purely and en…

> I feel that you haven't fully examined your own position on this matter. You're the one who hasn't fully examined my position on this matter, judging by your bizarre strawman argument.

I think he made some good points. What is the strawman here, if you care to expand?

Re: Cryonics Myths

#46

Post by icegreentea2 »

Wh1zz wrote: post #43
placebo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, that's news to me. While I still remain skeptical due to the orders of magnitude of complexity in the gap between C. elegans and humans, it definitely calls for a reassessment of the probability I have previously attached to it. This is why I like HN...

Even if the probability is astronomical, isn't a non-zero probability better than null? Sure there is a cost, but is it that high that you couldn't justify taking the chance, and instead just blowing it on a couple other fancy things or whatever?

A lot of people don't like playing along with Pascal's wager type arguments.

Re: Cryonics Myths

#47

Post by Wh1zz »

utopkara wrote: post #30

If Steve Jobs hasn't done it, then who am I to waste money on this.

I don't know, who are you? Perhaps you may be someone that enjoys walks, beautiful views, or maybe the perfume of a loved one? Maybe you're the type of person that would want to never stop experiencing these things. Or maybe you're the type of person that only does things approved and recommended by [rich person from pop culture]. Yeah, why even take any chances if they're not thoroughly sold to you by some CEO. It's just your existence we're talking about after all. Who are you to exist if [rich person from pop culture] stopped a while ago anyway?

Re: Cryonics Myths

#48

Post by philwelch »

Wh1zz wrote: post #45
philwelch wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel that you haven't fully examined your own position on this matter. You're the one who hasn't fully examined my position on this matter, judging by your bizarre strawman argument.

I think he made some good points. What is the strawman here, if you care to expand?

Just because I don't think it's desirable for me to be alive 300 years from now doesn't mean I don't think it's desirable for me to be alive right now.

Re: Cryonics Myths

#49

Post by philwelch »

OscarCunningham wrote: post #41
philwelch wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I find that the cryonics advocates are the ones with the deep and visceral illogical fear of death. That’s why one signs up for cryonics, right? Being at peace with one’s mortality removes the selfish “rational” incentive for cryonics. Individual people are replaceable, and don’t belong outside of their own time. If you want to advocate cryonics for the masses, think about what you would do if you had to live…

One might as well say that being at peace with one's hunger removes the selfish "rational" incentive for food.

Yup, hoping to have one's frozen corpse reanimated in a few centuries is completely the same thing as eating food. You got me there.

Re: Cryonics Myths

#50

Post by philwelch »

Wh1zz wrote: post #44
philwelch wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or I could just accept my mortality and let my corpse go to some productive use, like organ donation or teaching medical students, rather than investing in some narcissistic notion of being resurrected.

As romantic as "coming to peace with mortality" might sound, I enjoy living life too much to idly accept that i will at some point feel the breeze in my hair for the last time, or never again smell a flower's perfume, or gaze on a beautiful view. Sure, if everything fails, i will have to accept it. But why not give my everything in the mission of taking life further, even if i can help it by an atomic amount? What if…

That's the most poetic defense of base selfishness I've read since Ayn Rand.
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