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In web design, everything easy is hard again

frankchimero.com

191–200 of 335 posts

Re: In web design, everything easy is hard again

#191

html, css, and jQuery work just about exactly the same as they did a decade ago, nothing stops you from using tools you already understand. If it was up to facebook then react would be the only framework used on the web; problem solved right? In reality, there are different tools for different needs and if you don't understand the specific problems a tool was made to solve then of course you're going to find it confu…

ES6 is elasticsearch 6, right?

Re: In web design, everything easy is hard again

#192
post #187

There is a difference between web design and web application development. If you are a designer making brochure sites for small business, you don't need the modern frameworks and toolkits, and you are over-engineering it if you use them. Everyone needs to take a step back and ask why they are building a web site in the first place. My local hair salon really just needs a brochure, and maybe a scheduling widget. A doc…

>There is a difference between web design and web application development. His essay isn't really about documents vs apps. It's about documents vs documents. Or more accurately, he's lamenting about docs_simplesyntax vs docs_complicatedsyntax. He shows an example of easy HTML syntax[1] that harkens back to "simpler times" in the olden days: My First Web Page My First Web Page The problem with that is people want to a…

I agreed with you until you mentioned that the problem stemmed from people want[ing] to author documents (not apps) that are more complicated..., thus implying that to make "pretty, fancy" web pages you need to complicate the process of creation: I totally disagree with that premise and think that it's entirely possible to create complex looking and behaving web pages without complex code or processes.

However, for the sake of convenience (mostly), people have accepted the use of 15 different toolkits as the normal prerequisite to creating websites. Why add a one liner JS script in the head when you can npm install it, etc...

Writing html and css like the old days is just as possible today as it was back then, and you now even have better tools to do so (Html 5, CSS 3). It's just a matter of actively choosing to do so.

Re: In web design, everything easy is hard again

#193

html, css, and jQuery work just about exactly the same as they did a decade ago, nothing stops you from using tools you already understand. If it was up to facebook then react would be the only framework used on the web; problem solved right? In reality, there are different tools for different needs and if you don't understand the specific problems a tool was made to solve then of course you're going to find it confu…

> html, css, and jQuery work just about exactly the same as they did a decade ago, nothing stops you from using tools you already understand. A decade ago, the requirements for supporting all/most clients (devices) were radically different. Different requirements mean different solutions and perhaps new tools must be used.

This isn't really true. jQuery's compatibility can stretch all the way back to IE8, up to the newest devices. If you require the web to be more than a document viewer, then you might in fact need some different tools; but HTML/CSS/jQuery didn't solve those if you're going back that far, Flash did.

But HTML/CSS/jQuery still work to solve the problems they always did. And they're still used in production today. According to W3Techs, jQuery is still present in 96.2% of the sites they could determine a JavaScript framework for in the Alexa top 10M.[1] And the very popular CSS framework Bootstrap still has it as one of its dependencies.[2]

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

1: https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/js-jquery/all/all

2: https://getbootstrap.com/docs/4.0/getting-started/introducti...

Re: In web design, everything easy is hard again

#194
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Debugging is one of the biggest problems with FP, and when you hear some prolific Haskell hackers talking about no longer being capable of understanding code they produced 10 years ago at the peak of their mental performance, it's difficult to commit to it exclusively.

> Debugging is one of the biggest problems with FP I don't see why that's a problem with FP and not just the lack of tooling in most FP languages. Debugging in F# via Visual Studio is a breeze, and OCaml's time travelling debugger looks pretty good.

For F#, is it a debugger designed for F# or just good integration with VS’s .net debugger? If the latter, I should mention that the problem remains even when using C# if your code gets too functional (e.g. getting rid of some LINQ for debuggability is a common trade off).

Re: In web design, everything easy is hard again

#195

html, css, and jQuery work just about exactly the same as they did a decade ago, nothing stops you from using tools you already understand. If it was up to facebook then react would be the only framework used on the web; problem solved right? In reality, there are different tools for different needs and if you don't understand the specific problems a tool was made to solve then of course you're going to find it confu…

ES6 is elasticsearch 6, right?

ECMAScript 6, an expansion to JavaScript.

A concise feature list can be found here: http://es6-features.org

Re: In web design, everything easy is hard again

#196

html, css, and jQuery work just about exactly the same as they did a decade ago, nothing stops you from using tools you already understand. If it was up to facebook then react would be the only framework used on the web; problem solved right? In reality, there are different tools for different needs and if you don't understand the specific problems a tool was made to solve then of course you're going to find it confu…

ES6 is elasticsearch 6, right?

[deleted]

Re: In web design, everything easy is hard again

#197

There is a difference between web design and web application development. If you are a designer making brochure sites for small business, you don't need the modern frameworks and toolkits, and you are over-engineering it if you use them. Everyone needs to take a step back and ask why they are building a web site in the first place. My local hair salon really just needs a brochure, and maybe a scheduling widget. A doc…

> When you step up to needing some actual functionality,

I would say that, given that the hairdresser’s and doctor’s sites do what they were designed to do, they also have actual functionality. Perhaps “fairly complex” would be more descriptive?

Re: In web design, everything easy is hard again

#198

html, css, and jQuery work just about exactly the same as they did a decade ago, nothing stops you from using tools you already understand. If it was up to facebook then react would be the only framework used on the web; problem solved right? In reality, there are different tools for different needs and if you don't understand the specific problems a tool was made to solve then of course you're going to find it confu…

ES6 is elasticsearch 6, right?

> ES6 is elasticsearch 6, right?

It's EMCAScript [0], the spec of which JavaScript is an implementation. New features will come out in the spec, and it takes a bit for browser's JS engines to implement them.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECMAScript

Re: In web design, everything easy is hard again

#199

This is my experience of web development, every time I return to it. I’m really not an expert in web dev, but it _feels_ like web dev has been badly engineered. JavaScript is a very badly designed programming language (yes, even in its modern form), which I think has caused a lot of problems. Many JS developers don’t know much about programming language design, so they can’t see how bad it is, and they make matters w…

Node.js with ES6 is a dream. i love it

Re: In web design, everything easy is hard again

#200
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I want to install Pip, Maven or what-have-you, I'd be using apt.

You don't install apt, it comes standard.

The point is that I'm using a package manager to install a package manager, which is supposedly bad.
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