Cryonics Myths • Hacker News Board

Re: Cryonics Myths

#11

Post by ebbv » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 1:54 AM UTC

apsec112 wrote: post #9

ebbv wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not name calling. It’s calling it what it is. They promise extended life which they cannot deliver at all. They are just like an astrologist or psychic surgeon.

Then why not write a meaningful reply? Why not say "I think cryonics will not work because... , , ", instead of throwing generic insults at people?

For the same reason I’m not gonna spend my time writing a lengthy rebuff of psychic surgery. It’s total nonsense and we as a society have known that for decades, and even a cursory examination makes it obvious.

Re: Cryonics Myths

#12

Post by reasonattlm » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 1:57 AM UTC

Reversible vitrification of organs is a field starting to show some promise. It will revolutionize the transplant industry, and will bring more attention to cryonics.

https://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/216900...

There is also some interesting work spurred by the Brain Preservation Prize:

http://www.brainpreservation.org/small-mammal-announcement/

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cryobiol.2015.09.003

"We describe here a new cryobiological and neurobiological technique, aldehyde-stabilized cryopreservation (ASC), which demonstrates the relevance and utility of advanced cryopreservation science for the neurobiological research community. ASC is a new brain-banking technique designed to facilitate neuroanatomic research such as connectomics research, and has the unique ability to combine stable long term ice-free sample storage with excellent anatomical resolution."

Re: Cryonics Myths

#13

Post by krisives » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 1:59 AM UTC

They mention they don't preserve "heads" in specific but rather brains, and go into detail about how they can't separate a brain from a skull so they preserve the entire head. Wouldn't separating the head from the body cause similar problems of destroying information in the brain? Do they keep the entire body?

Re: Cryonics Myths

#14

Post by abecedarius » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 2:01 AM UTC

nwatson wrote: post #7

Cryonics Myth #1: "Trustees 200 years in future at a time when your disease [X] is completely curable will care to bring you back." There's no corporate or legal or NGO structure in the business that will last long enough that anyone will care, and even if they do the cooling system failover will not work in the particularly hot summer of 2074.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies

Also we don't know how long this needs to work. If it happens at all I expect it'll be in much less than 200 years. (Yes, of course that's a big if.)

Re: Cryonics Myths

#15

Post by apsec112 » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 2:01 AM UTC

nwatson wrote: post #7

Cryonics Myth #1: "Trustees 200 years in future at a time when your disease [X] is completely curable will care to bring you back." There's no corporate or legal or NGO structure in the business that will last long enough that anyone will care, and even if they do the cooling system failover will not work in the particularly hot summer of 2074.

While there is a real risk that cryonics organizations will fail, there's no reason to think it's a foregone conclusion. Tons of organizations have been around for over two hundred years. The oldest non-profits in continuous existence are well over a thousand years old. There's no legal barrier to a non-profit corporation or trust continuing to exist indefinitely, as many indeed have. (Heck, the Nobel Prizes are an after-death trust that has only gotten larger and more famous in the 122 years since Nobel's death.)

See also Alcor's reply to "Who will revive patients?": http://alcor.org/FAQs/faq01.html#whowillrevive

There is no active cooling system; cryonics patients are passively cooled with liquid nitrogen. The only regular maintenance needed is adding more liquid nitrogen, and the storage dewars can last for many months before replenishment is needed.

Re: Cryonics Myths

#16

Post by blake8086 » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 2:31 AM UTC

I did a podcast with a friend covering a lot of these points here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ffQEoSJW4w

I think a big myth people need dispelled is that cryonics is really expensive. It's not a very expensive gamble to take, and it's pretty easy to see that it's worthwhile for many people.

Re: Cryonics Myths

#17

Post by ericb » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 2:42 AM UTC

Brain vitrification, from their FAQ:

This procedure is not yet reversible because of other damage (not caused by ice) including biochemical effects of the vitrification solution — but it eliminates ice damage and the preservation of fine structure is excellent.

Re: Cryonics Myths

#18

Post by philwelch » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 2:43 AM UTC

justinalanbass wrote: post #2

Being an avid cryonicist, I have attempted to express these myths to a wide variety of people. The very few and open-minded folks that will move past utter dismissal usually have a deep and visceral illogical fear of death - or a deep and visceral religious belief in the afterlife. These "Cryonics Myths Debunked" tend to only further convince those who are likely to choose Cryonics anyways. There must be a better way…

Funny, I find that the cryonics advocates are the ones with the deep and visceral illogical fear of death. That’s why one signs up for cryonics, right? Being at peace with one’s mortality removes the selfish “rational” incentive for cryonics.

Individual people are replaceable, and don’t belong outside of their own time. If you want to advocate cryonics for the masses, think about what you would do if you had to live in a world with the reanimated masses of the 18th century. Because that’s the kind of mess you propose to inflict on our future descendants.

Re: Cryonics Myths

#19

Post by abecedarius » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 2:46 AM UTC

krisives wrote: post #13

They mention they don't preserve "heads" in specific but rather brains, and go into detail about how they can't separate a brain from a skull so they preserve the entire head. Wouldn't separating the head from the body cause similar problems of destroying information in the brain? Do they keep the entire body?

Whole-body preservation has been a more expensive option (and I assume still is, but I haven't been keeping up to date).

Not that I've tried, but I guess detaching a head at the base has less potential to damage than would opening and removing the whole skull.

Re: Cryonics Myths

#20

Post by tim333 » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 2:49 AM UTC

nwatson wrote: post #7

Cryonics Myth #1: "Trustees 200 years in future at a time when your disease [X] is completely curable will care to bring you back." There's no corporate or legal or NGO structure in the business that will last long enough that anyone will care, and even if they do the cooling system failover will not work in the particularly hot summer of 2074.

>There's no corporate or legal or NGO structure in the business that will last long enough that anyone will care

No people will care because that's what they do and that's why we have schools, hospitals and the like in all countries, not because there is a legal structure requiring them.