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Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

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Re: Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

#71

99% of the perfectionists I have had the misfortune to work with are just slow or out of their depth and are using the term as an emotional crutch. How much nicer it is to tell yourself that you are a perfectionist than you are just not very good at whatever you are doing. The people that turn out near perfect work are usually the fastest and just get things done. It is a pity they are so rare.

I've noticed that people in many fields who are capable of fast, near perfect work often have had the opportunity to spend lots of time doing the same activities with the slow, methodical mind of a perfectionist. Some of them continue to do this throughout their careers, in the long stretches between the performance of fast, near perfect work.

I think it's a shame that we don't encourage something closer to that balance with professional software development.

Re: Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

#72

99% of the perfectionists I have had the misfortune to work with are just slow or out of their depth and are using the term as an emotional crutch. How much nicer it is to tell yourself that you are a perfectionist than you are just not very good at whatever you are doing. The people that turn out near perfect work are usually the fastest and just get things done. It is a pity they are so rare.

They might be perfectionist otherwise they would probably have been fired long ago?

Re: Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's funny, most of the people I've worked with don't appreciate the value of slow, methodical, thorough work. They lack the ability to predict failure scenarios and predict how small changes will cascade in a system and cause undesired behavior. Therefore the time taken seems wasted to them when in fact they frequently don't understand. There's room for both types of people in the world, but only one should call t…

Funny, I feel that I'm able to do this, to methodically work through a problem, addressing/exploring all relevant angles, mapping it out in it's entirety as much as possible. To identify potential risk and opportunity. But I would call this: just my fucking job. Not perfectionism. But I realise also: I'm wrong. Tons of people are unable to do this and call this ability perfectionism, as if it's something bad.

You truly are a saint among men then :)

Re: Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

#76
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is tapping into your flow state a similar thing to "being in the zone"? Yep, exactly! I could see people who try to control things too much having a hard time getting into that state/zone and replacing it with a long cycle of fussing, but that's just how I imagine it might work. Thanks for the reply :^)

That actually makes me think about 2 things now: 1. Being in the zone is good, but you may be functioning mostly on instinct, so the more experience you have, the better results you ll get. By that I mean that it s where that thing called craft helps you. You then have some techniques that you can rely on, and not only your gut feelings. 2. While being in the zone, it's still good to jump out of it and criticize your…

>1. Being in the zone is good, but you may be functioning mostly on instinct, so the more experience you have, the better results you ll get. By that I mean that it s where that thing called craft helps you. You then have some techniques that you can rely on, and not only your gut feelings.

Absolutely! The work of creating comes in the preparation - on one's self and craft. It's like a boxer or mixed martial artist. The time in the ring is the payoff for all the hard work. It's also the moment of judgement for that work and talent. 2 Chainz says, Hard work beats talent, and I tend to agree.

>2. While being in the zone, it's still good to jump out of it and criticize your own work (as in you always have to be your best critic). It s almost as if criticizing yourself should be a reflex, part of your instinct. Sometimes I imagine someone commenting what I do and me trying to defend my work. If I can't defend it well, that means I better look into :)

For writing poetry, I've settled on something similar. I do think the medium affects the approach. There are times when I will write a page and a half in flow state and read it to realize I only like two lines, and I'll still feel it was time well spent. In visual arts, you can't really do this. Most of the time, I write in a flow state until something breaks the rhythm - typically the emotional/mental impact, rather than meter. When the rhythm breaks, I rewrite the part that works (physically, not editing) and attempt to take a different turn from that point. So, in the process of creating, for writing anyway, I think the editor should hang around just enough to shoo the creator onto the right path. The cutting room is a different story.

Really enjoy learning about the way you approach all this! Thanks! :^)

Re: Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re missing a few things: 1. Many great artists were extremely prolific and created lots of mediocre work, we just forget about those. There seem to be very few perfectionists who just created a few great works, not “releasing” them until they were perfect. There are some, but they’re the exception. 2. You’re also not seeing all the many perfectionists who waited until things were perfect and then never fi…

Sure. You need a balance, and creating flawed works is a part of the process--I wouldn't deny that. But creating work after work, for the sake of creating, doesn't necessarily lead to better work; going through the slow process of refinement, revision, and self-criticism, is necessary. There's a saying that music teachers often repeat, which is that practice doesn't maker perfect, practice makes permanent. You have t…

>But creating work after work, for the sake of creating, doesn't necessarily lead to better work

I don't see anyone suggesting this.

Re: Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

#78
I think perfectionism can also be a crutch used as a weapon. The podium of perfectionism allows a moral high ground that is also an excuse to not engage with reality. The image is too pretty to soil.

Reality is engaged with only when you have secret tricks or hacks so that any game can be ended at will. When you engage in games as a gamemaster it is no longer a game, it is boring.

Executives use similar methods to create an image of perfection. This is actually good and necessary as their main function is to create games for others as a bubble while also siphoning value. Without the game, the master-slave dynamic is too raw.

Perfectionists are people who don't play games they don't think they can win. This can stifle learning, create aloofness, and make for a boring and meaningless life. At its core it is an illusion of the self having more control over reality than a human possibly can. It is a desire to be closer to God and so gives up some humanity. (which is necessarily imperfect)

Of course, when pushing or expanding the limits of humanity, pefectionism can sometimes be good. Shutting yourself in for a while can be very useful for creation. Learning is not necessary as the act is of the self, the raw knowledge being acquired already. Meaning is also not necessary because it is self-generating.

However to lock in that meaning, what is created must eventually be released and tested in the world. The 2 way interaction within a network is what creates larger meaning. Small releases are like small strategic bets. Big releases (perfectionism)are like going all in and hoping for the best.

Re: Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

#79
post #78

I think perfectionism can also be a crutch used as a weapon. The podium of perfectionism allows a moral high ground that is also an excuse to not engage with reality. The image is too pretty to soil. Reality is engaged with only when you have secret tricks or hacks so that any game can be ended at will. When you engage in games as a gamemaster it is no longer a game, it is boring. Executives use similar methods to cr…

"Perfectionists are people who don't play games they don't think they can win."

I think you defined the opposite of a gambler more than a perfectionist here. As in, most normal people.

Perfectionists are people who don't play a game they do not completely master. Also attempt to hide eons of practice and mistakes to appear saintly. This is a vast difference.

Re: Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

#80
post #32

I'm really skeptical of this attitude. In a lot of fields I've seen people who commit themselves to "just getting it done." The result is that they do get a lot of work done: and it's bad, it's mediocre, it doesn't have value. On the other hand, one can easily think of creators who spent a long time on one work (maybe "too much" time), and the result was work of lasting value. Of course, this relates more to artistic…

I'm an artist myself and I still think it applies. If I take a client they are going to want it done in a reasonable time frame. At some point I will have to make the call of "Good enough to ship." But even when it comes to personal projects it's useless to work on the same project forever. Often that stunts growth (new pieces teach you new things) and it also makes you a lot less prolific. I've met so many artists w…

Yes, I haven't mentioned that in the post, but that's definitely a good point. Our happiness or satisfaction will be very much linked to progress we make.

And since progress tend to be logarithmic (the last 20% taking 80% of the time), the last bit will be the least pleasant. So that's where we become less efficient.

Of course that doesn't mean either that we should stop when it gets hard. But being aware of this should help you decide if you should keep pushing or if it's time to take a break (which can be a few minutes or maybe weeks).

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