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Oxford Comma Dispute Is Settled as Maine Drivers Get $5M

nytimes.com

11–20 of 74 posts

Re: Oxford Comma Dispute Is Settled as Maine Drivers Get $5M

#11
post #7

To paraphrase one of my favorite quotes (from the guy who developed Comic Sans): If you really love the Oxford Comma you don't know much about writing and need a new hobby. If you really hate the Oxford Comma you don't know much about writing and need a new hobby.

You might have been implying this with your parenthetical but, just to say it, the irony is that the same guy created Comic Sans.

Re: Oxford Comma Dispute Is Settled as Maine Drivers Get $5M

#13
post #2

I'm as big a fan of the Oxford comma as anyone, but the court ruling here was ridiculous. External evidence, including the state legislature's style guide, made it perfectly clear what the law meant.

style guides are not laws and if the style guide changes it changes the meaning of the law.

But a style guide in effect at the time the law was written would clearly help disambiguate the intent of the law. That being said, I'm an Oxford comma fan.

Re: Oxford Comma Dispute Is Settled as Maine Drivers Get $5M

#14

Feels like they could have made this even simpler by reordering the exemptions. For example: The distribution, canning, processing, preserving, freezing, drying, marketing, storing or packing for shipment of: I'm a fan of the Oxford comma and think it would still add clarity here. The semicolon solution is ham-fisted and unnecessary.

But doesn't that make "storing" ambiguous? It could mean "storing" of the 3 following categories, or "storing for shipment" of the 3 following categories.

Re: Oxford Comma Dispute Is Settled as Maine Drivers Get $5M

#15
Uhmh, can anyone elaborate on exactly why someone driving perishable food should be exempt from overtime pay? Isn't it a bit ass-backwards: exactly those who need to work overtime so the food doesn't spoil are the ones who cannot get overtime? Am I reading that correctly?

Re: Oxford Comma Dispute Is Settled as Maine Drivers Get $5M

#16
post #2

I'm as big a fan of the Oxford comma as anyone, but the court ruling here was ridiculous. External evidence, including the state legislature's style guide, made it perfectly clear what the law meant.

style guides are not laws and if the style guide changes it changes the meaning of the law.

Yes, but the intent of a law matters. It's why it goes to court in the first place. I mean the meaning here is pretty clear, different from a real legal loophole where the system just hasn't been thoroughly planned.

Re: Oxford Comma Dispute Is Settled as Maine Drivers Get $5M

#17
Since the paragraph in question establishes two sets, why explicitly enumerate one set, while relying on inline punctuation for another? This inconsistency suggests that the two kinds of enumerations aren't similar; yet they are. Their intersections define cases where the provision does or does not apply. (EDIT: the accurate term for this is cartesian product.)

Explicit is better than implicit, even when the end result is more wordy.

There's dozens of ways to rephrase this, but here's one:

The overtime provision of this section does not apply in cases when any of the hereby enumerated activities are done to any of the hereby enumerated categories of items.

The activities are:

(1) canning; (2) processing; (3) preserving; (4) freezing; (5) drying; (6) marketing; (7) storing; (8) packing for shipment; (9) distributing.

The categories of items are:

(1) Agricultural produce; (2) Meat and fish products; (3) Perishable foods.

Furthermore, there's an entire other line in this same paragraph about egg processing facilities above a certain size. This should be broken out elsewhere.

Re: Oxford Comma Dispute Is Settled as Maine Drivers Get $5M

#18
post #15

Uhmh, can anyone elaborate on exactly why someone driving perishable food should be exempt from overtime pay ? Isn't it a bit ass-backwards: exactly those who need to work overtime so the food doesn't spoil are the ones who cannot get overtime? Am I reading that correctly?

If you are an IT worker you're probably exempt from overtime pay as well. Does nobody bat an eye at this? How is this even justified?

Re: Oxford Comma Dispute Is Settled as Maine Drivers Get $5M

#19

That clever bastard dropped an Oxford comma right from the very first sentence of the article. (I understand the Times style guide advises against it. I'm still pretty sure he did it on purpose.)

> Ending a case that electrified punctuation pedants, grammar goons and comma connoisseurs, Oakhurst Dairy settled an overtime dispute with its drivers that hinged entirely on the lack of an Oxford comma in state law.

I see no Oxford comma there. Am I missing something?

Re: Oxford Comma Dispute Is Settled as Maine Drivers Get $5M

#20
The interpretation that considers "packing for distribution" as an exemption and not "distribution" makes for a grammatically incorrect sentence in any case.

"A, B, C or D" is a correct sentence without Oxford comma, and the structure used originally. "A, B, C, or D" is also correct, and does have the Oxford comma. But the interpretation I mentioned reads the sentence as "A, B, C" -- where C is the whole of "packing for shipment or distribution". You need something there, either "and" or "or" or something similar. I'd say the language is perfectly unambiguous, if a little strained. But that's just law texts in general.

Edit: consistency

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