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Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

calnewport.com

191–200 of 274 posts

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#191
post #8

I'm rather bothered that I know nothing about Soros except a bunch of vague, negative feelings about him that have pop-culturally osmosed to me through constant usage of his name in 4channish/the_donaldish media. He's some kind of evil mastermind destroying civilisation with his vast wealth. I know this is almost certainly not true, but I'm so bothered that this is my immediate thought. I feel like the alt-right has…

For those who don't know, George Soros is a self-appointed alchemist and currency trader.

Powerful and wealthy currency traders, going back since the very invention of moneychanging, have routinely made their fortunes by either waiting and hoping they're lucky enough to have the surfboard ready for massive geopolitical tsunamis... or by being proactive and intentionally creating geopolitical volatility with social engineering, cultural destabilization, and semantic apocalypse.

Pathological altruists often whine about war profiteering, but even that sordid business is downstream of and part of a brilliant and comprehensive currency traders arsenal.

HackerNews is so goddamned disingenuously oblivious to the realities of currency trading and the thousands of years of misery it makes possible.

Ask yourself: Why is HackerNews erasing comments revealing this 100% provable history of forex?

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Kochs are widely misunderstood. They are typically seen as effectively a free-money-pit for generic Republican views that promote Capitalist exploitation, laying waste to the environment, and destroying any real grassroots movement to bring democratic power to the people. From my understanding, the reality is more like: The Kochs are typical dogmatic Libertarians who aren't anti-environment but have this simplist…

Good intentions? Any time I read something like this: https://www.thenation.com/article/big-brothers-thought-contr... my doubts about them increase.

The whole complaint in that article seems to be that Koch Industries endorsed a candidate in a letter to their employees.

Reading the article, there were a few points where I felt like I was reading a propoganda piece, which made the complaints about the Koch's newsletter being right-wing propoganda feel superficial and politically motivated, if not outright hypocritical.

Frankly, it's a great example of the sort of thing kbenson and spinchange were talking about above [1].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16341358

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#193
post #8

I'm rather bothered that I know nothing about Soros except a bunch of vague, negative feelings about him that have pop-culturally osmosed to me through constant usage of his name in 4channish/the_donaldish media. He's some kind of evil mastermind destroying civilisation with his vast wealth. I know this is almost certainly not true, but I'm so bothered that this is my immediate thought. I feel like the alt-right has…

So, for those who don't know, George Soros is a self-appointed alchemist and currency trader.

Powerful and wealthy currency traders, going back since the very invention of moneychanging, have routinely made their fortunes by either waiting and hoping they're lucky enough to have the surfboard ready for massive geopolitical tsunamis... or by being proactive and intentionally creating geopolitical volatility with social engineering, cultural destabilization, and semantic apocalypse.

Pathological altruists often whine about war profiteering, but even that sordid business is downstream of and part of a brilliant and comprehensive currency traders arsenal.

HackerNews is so goddamned disingenuously oblivious to the realities of currency trading and the thousands of years of misery it makes possible.

Ask yourself: Why is HackerNews erasing comments revealing this 100% provable history of forex?

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#194
post #8

I'm rather bothered that I know nothing about Soros except a bunch of vague, negative feelings about him that have pop-culturally osmosed to me through constant usage of his name in 4channish/the_donaldish media. He's some kind of evil mastermind destroying civilisation with his vast wealth. I know this is almost certainly not true, but I'm so bothered that this is my immediate thought. I feel like the alt-right has…

...for those who don't know, George Soros is a self-appointed alchemist and currency trader.

Powerful and wealthy currency traders, going back since the very invention of moneychanging, have routinely made their fortunes by either waiting and hoping they're lucky enough to have the surfboard ready for massive geopolitical tsunamis... or by being proactive and intentionally creating geopolitical volatility with social engineering, cultural destabilization, and semantic apocalypse.

Pathological altruists often whine about war profiteering, but even that sordid business is downstream of and part of a brilliant and comprehensive currency traders arsenal.

HackerNews is so goddamned disingenuously oblivious to the realities of currency trading and the thousands of years of misery it makes possible.

Ask yourself: Why is HackerNews erasing comments revealing this 100% provable history of forex?

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#195

Sorry, I'm simply not convinced that monetizing and marketing people's attention is all that much of a social ill. There is nothing about Facebook that's in any way worse than the old ways companies used to do this. Does nobody remember the 80s? TV was turning people into fricken' zombies. People would sit on the boob tube for days at a time, stopping only to go to work to mindlessly knock out chores for a shift, the…

Is it possible TV did make society marginally worse, and each new dopamine trap captures an increasing fraction of society? This statement is laughable: > The thing that actually holds old friendships together and provides endless opportunities to interact with other people that you would have never done otherwise Facebook's innovation was trapping users in a walled garden with omnipresent surveillance and advertisin…

>a walled garden with omnipresent surveillance and advertising

So... a shopping mall? A school? Any corporate job? A walk through downtown? "In-network" minutes and long distance charges on your phone? Religious institutions?

Whatever Facebook is doing wrong for society, they are standing on the backs of giants. Walled garden or not, surveillance or not, advertising or not, people have never been as free to socialize as they are today. If there is something negative on your Facebook feed, you are solely responsible for it being there. It takes two clicks to make it go away forever.

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The principals of finance are the same for everyone. Just because the UK (like Mexico, Argentina, and most of SE Asia) decided to ignore the rules, doesn't make him a bad person. It makes him an intelligent investor. When you're screwing with monetary policy and most college kids (in finance and economics) know what you're doing will blow up in your face. To assume investors won't take advantage is not only naive but…

> It makes him an intelligent investor. It makes him an amoral investor. We need more rich people with morals, not those who use the letter of the law to destroy things and then claim they're not to blame because they played by the rules. Because something is legal doesn't mean you should do it.

Here's the reality. The people that CREATED the situation were the immoral and unethical ones. If he doesn't cash in, someone else does. Or even worse, it grows exponentially until it collapses in on itself.

Maybe look at the idiots running those governments and their finance people when you want to pass judgment. Easy money is easy money. He had to have the capital to take advantage anyway.

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are still talking about a website , right? A totally optional website, in a browser with a close button? This isn’t a chemical addiction or gambling.

Isn't it a chemical addiction? I mean, what does Heroin do to your brain? Releases a ton of extra dopamine and serotonin and crap, right? And what happens when you see that 14 people liked your post? Okay, so maybe Facebook doesn't change the way that your brain's receptors work with long-term use, but don't deny that people keep going back for that hit of inclusion.

Is having a conversation a chemical addiction? If I say something that receives a negative response, will I not try to follow it up with something that receives a positive response? After I've received that positive response, will I not try to please my conversation partner more to keep feeling good about myself? Should we then ban conversations?

Some people use "it releases dopamine" like that's a bad thing, like our bodies weren't wired with dopamine receptors to teach us how to function in a society. Are you proposing we get rid of everything that releases dopamine? We should all live a bleak and meaningless life?

Humans are social creatures. We're wired to seek positive feedback from our peers. Getting a laugh in a face-to-face conversation is no different than getting a smiley face in an SMS is no different than getting likes on Facebook.

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#198

Sorry, I'm simply not convinced that monetizing and marketing people's attention is all that much of a social ill. There is nothing about Facebook that's in any way worse than the old ways companies used to do this. Does nobody remember the 80s? TV was turning people into fricken' zombies. People would sit on the boob tube for days at a time, stopping only to go to work to mindlessly knock out chores for a shift, the…

Suppose you are right, what does that prove? You can be morbidly obese for decades before dying of the consequences. It's still not good to be morbidly obese.

That this is a social illness that has been with us since before the Internet does not excuse its continued existence. It's a waste of what Clay Shirky has dubbed "Cognitive Surplus":

> It represents the ability of the world's population to volunteer and to contribute and collaborate on large, sometimes global, projects. Cognitive surplus is made up of two things. [First,] the world's free time and talents. The world has over a trillion hours a year of free time to commit to shared projects. Now, that free time existed in the 20th century. [However, the media landscape in the 20th century was mainly very good] at helping people consume, and we got, as a result, very good at consuming.

> [That is the second part of cognitive surplus. Now that] we've been given media tools -- the Internet, mobile phones -- that let us do more than consume, what we're seeing is that people weren't couch potatoes because we liked to be. We were couch potatoes because that was the only opportunity given to us. We still like to consume, of course. But it turns out we also like to create, and we like to share. And it's those two things together -- ancient human motivation and the modern tools to allow that motivation to be joined up in large-scale efforts -- that are the new design resource. And using cognitive surplus, we're starting to see truly incredible experiments in scientific, literary, artistic, political efforts.

That people wasted their lives in front of TV does not mean that we should have to keep accepting business models based on "zombification", especially when the media of the 21st century has so much potential for individual empowerment compared to television before it.

But I do agree that Facebook should not receive all the blame. You know which product is not criticised nearly enough in this context? The iPhone. Because at its core, what differentiated the iPhone from the other smartphones when it was introduced, was that is was a portable, always-online computer optimised for consumption. And it definitely had a large role in the rise of the current form of social media, compared to the internet communities that existed before it.

The attention economy is the equivalent of bitcoin mining, except with human brain cycles: its economy is fundamentally based on wasting resources, revealing an utterly cynical view of the worth of human life.

On an individual level the attention economy is a waste of human life. On a societal level it is a waste of cognitive surplus. On a global level, whether or not we waste that cognitive surplus will mean the difference between collectively being able to get out of the mess we dug ourselves into in the last century, or racing ever harder towards collapse with then having to try to recover after that.

How is that for apocalyptic bombast?

[0] https://www.ted.com/talks/clay_shirky_how_cognitive_surplus_...

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#199
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sorry, I'm simply not convinced that monetizing and marketing people's attention is all that much of a social ill. What about monetizing and marketing people's affection? The dowry would be the classic example, I'd be curious why you (presumably) are against dowries. To me it's basically the same, certain things are corrupted by their commodification, affection, attention, others. Besides when you say: >The world su…

This will sound like I'm vehemently defending Facebook, but I found some considerable gaps in your counter argument that I thought I'd make you aware of, for the sake of constructive debate. > What about monetizing and marketing people's affection? The dowry would be the classic example, I'd be curious why you (presumably) are against dowries. No, the dowry wouldn't be the classic example because that's more akin to…

... killing time...

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#200

I am no great fan of Facebook, but the indignant accusations about them wanting to keep us glued to their screen seem mostly to come from people who were (and are) perfectly fine with television networks that did the same thing for decades. Even today, the typical citizen spends more time watching TV than on social media, I bet. I use Facebook once a week, and TV never, and I find that people are mostly not even will…

And not to mention Wikipedia, despite it not having any attention engineering, it is to go wandering in it for hours together and yet they don't get any bad press?

and the library too for that matter!
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