Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

calnewport.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 274 posts

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#31

Post by jnordwick »

Can we stop calling this addiction? The DSM V doesnt recognize process addictions, with the exception of Gambling Disorder, and many of the symptoms don't apply to social media use. Even Internet addiction wasn't included for lack of proof.

Substance Use Disorder (the new category for chemical addictions) has specifics such as withdrawal and physical dependency that you don't get from turning off your Facebook account.

Facebook is a habit that many people user too much. It isn't like a drug that has drastic and rapid physical changes in your brain. Your brain isn't literally hijacked anymore than TV or anything you like doing hijacks your brain. It reacts fairly normally actually.

Optimizing for somebody to use a site a lot isn't addicting people. The abuse of terminology has gone too far and is really clouding the discussion.

Besides what would it look like to not "optimize for addiction"? Give people news stories they don't want to read? The conversation has just gone off the rails when it starts to be compared to cocaine and heroin.

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#32

Post by kvgr »

monkmartinez wrote: post #5

I have read most of Cal's books and they are good. His fight against social media is... I don't know, extreme. The problem to me isn't social media per se. The real problem is self-discipline/control. Cal crusades against social media, but I don't see him crusade against video games, or watching TV for example. I think a good/better metric is total screen time. My children are given an allowance in the form of screen…

TV shows, specially Netflix have this sense of clifhangers and addiction. But one you are out of the house or at work, you just don't watch it :) You watch one episode, maybe another and then you are on the go to do stuff.

Social media with their superduper optimized notifications and timelines are especially designed to pull you out of work and focus to let a little more of that "oh new gif baby falling over" or "Oh another person liked photo of baguette I had for lunch, that makes 2, sweet" high. And it is east to just switch tab and write Face+Enter...

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#33

Post by 127 »

jordigh wrote: post #8

I'm rather bothered that I know nothing about Soros except a bunch of vague, negative feelings about him that have pop-culturally osmosed to me through constant usage of his name in 4channish/the_donaldish media. He's some kind of evil mastermind destroying civilisation with his vast wealth. I know this is almost certainly not true, but I'm so bothered that this is my immediate thought. I feel like the alt-right has…

It only works because at some moment your brain thinks it's part of the same in-group and thus starts adopting what is said automatically and integrating them into your personality. It's really strange how it happens, but also very understandable. The tribal and sectarian effect in me (and I assume also in rest of human beings) is really, really strong, and really subtle.

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#34

Post by jnordwick »

_m8fo wrote: post #27
vinceguidry wrote: post #17

Sorry, I'm simply not convinced that monetizing and marketing people's attention is all that much of a social ill. There is nothing about Facebook that's in any way worse than the old ways companies used to do this. Does nobody remember the 80s? TV was turning people into fricken' zombies. People would sit on the boob tube for days at a time, stopping only to go to work to mindlessly knock out chores for a shift, the…

Do you honestly think your examples are even in the same league as Facebook? Were TV ads ever as granular in its tracking as Facebook is today?

tv is exactly in the same league as Facebook. Video games is pretty close too. Neither one are recognized as addictions.

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#35

Post by vinceguidry »

_m8fo wrote: post #27
vinceguidry wrote: post #17

Sorry, I'm simply not convinced that monetizing and marketing people's attention is all that much of a social ill. There is nothing about Facebook that's in any way worse than the old ways companies used to do this. Does nobody remember the 80s? TV was turning people into fricken' zombies. People would sit on the boob tube for days at a time, stopping only to go to work to mindlessly knock out chores for a shift, the…

Do you honestly think your examples are even in the same league as Facebook? Were TV ads ever as granular in its tracking as Facebook is today?

It's got approximately the mass reach and appeal that television did. It doesn't have nearly the impact that TV did. I wonder what makes you think that Facebook is in any way the same league as TV. TV transformed society. Facebook just makes it easier for people to argue with each other.

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#36

Post by stctgion »

toastking wrote: post #15
monkmartinez wrote: post #5

I have read most of Cal's books and they are good. His fight against social media is... I don't know, extreme. The problem to me isn't social media per se. The real problem is self-discipline/control. Cal crusades against social media, but I don't see him crusade against video games, or watching TV for example. I think a good/better metric is total screen time. My children are given an allowance in the form of screen…

I think the difference is it's a little easier to control other forms of "screen time". That other stuff is pure entertainment and they don't have the addictive aspect of a feed.

I think maybe it's because you can't win at Facebook. All the other forms of entertainment give you a sense of satisfaction on completion. Facebook is the complete opposite. It doesn't end and you can't really win at it. That's great from a commercial perspective but utterly unfulfilling for the user.

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#37

Post by smohare »

vinceguidry wrote: post #17

Sorry, I'm simply not convinced that monetizing and marketing people's attention is all that much of a social ill. There is nothing about Facebook that's in any way worse than the old ways companies used to do this. Does nobody remember the 80s? TV was turning people into fricken' zombies. People would sit on the boob tube for days at a time, stopping only to go to work to mindlessly knock out chores for a shift, the…

Care to cite all the research showing the interactions social media provide are in fact so salubrious?

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#38

Post by _m8fo »

jnordwick wrote: post #34
_m8fo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly think your examples are even in the same league as Facebook? Were TV ads ever as granular in its tracking as Facebook is today?

tv is exactly in the same league as Facebook. Video games is pretty close too. Neither one are recognized as addictions.

What? Does TV track what you're doing when you're not watching and change the ads when you return?

You're being silly.

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#39

Post by _m8fo »

vinceguidry wrote: post #35
_m8fo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly think your examples are even in the same league as Facebook? Were TV ads ever as granular in its tracking as Facebook is today?

It's got approximately the mass reach and appeal that television did. It doesn't have nearly the impact that TV did. I wonder what makes you think that Facebook is in any way the same league as TV. TV transformed society. Facebook just makes it easier for people to argue with each other.

Your gross simplification of the issue is unfortunate. TV has never been able to track you and change its programming to the extent Facebook can.

Re: Facebook's Desperate Smoke Screen

#40

Post by pensivemood »

monkmartinez wrote: post #5

I have read most of Cal's books and they are good. His fight against social media is... I don't know, extreme. The problem to me isn't social media per se. The real problem is self-discipline/control. Cal crusades against social media, but I don't see him crusade against video games, or watching TV for example. I think a good/better metric is total screen time. My children are given an allowance in the form of screen…

>The real problem is self-discipline/control.

Lol. What a stupid argument! I know this is HN and I am supposed to be civil and all, but still, What a stupid, stupid argument..

Post reply on HN