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"Android Tools Are Horrendous, OS Is Hideous," FB iPhone Dev Joe Hewitt Tweets

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Re: "Android Tools Are Horrendous, OS Is Hideous," FB iPhone Dev Joe Hewitt Tweets

#31

Post by drivebyacct2 »

briancooley wrote: post #20

There are a lot of things about Android that are annoying. Sadly, Java is far from the most annoying thing for me. Besides, if you want to write in something besides Java, you have more hope on Android than iOS at this point [1]. The most annoying thing to me is the lack of a really good equivalent to Interface Builder. Building UI's in XML is tedious and error-prone. Along those lines, there seems to be a problem wi…

But you can write in plenty of other languages. ASE gives you TONS of options for other languages you can use to target the Dalvik VM. Not to mention that Mono on Android just launched (a beta?) a few days ago.

Re: "Android Tools Are Horrendous, OS Is Hideous," FB iPhone Dev Joe Hewitt Tweets

#33

Post by joehewitt »

ergo98 wrote: post #12

Reading his comments, he sounds like many developers when faced with tools they aren't accustomed to using languages they aren't competent at: Instead of acknowledging confusion and ignorance (in the polite way of saying it), turn it into criticisms of the externals. Look at virtually everyone new to JavaScript and web development as a great example of this. Even brilliant minds, when first introduced to the surprisi…

I never said it was "hard", just that I was surprised that the simple task of "get me this URL" required me to work with some abstract classes for "async tasks". Strikes me as overengineering. The networking classes could easily encapsulate the threading stuff and let me just stay on the UI thread, as every other networking library I've ever worked with has done.

I've found other places in the Android SDK when, rather than simply using callbacks to encapsulate asynchronous work, I'm required to deal with the threads myself (see GLSurfaceView). You can accuse me of being "confused and ignorant" but I feel I am making a valid critique of the API design.

Re: "Android Tools Are Horrendous, OS Is Hideous," FB iPhone Dev Joe Hewitt Tweets

#34

Post by masklinn »

ergo98 wrote: post #12

Reading his comments, he sounds like many developers when faced with tools they aren't accustomed to using languages they aren't competent at: Instead of acknowledging confusion and ignorance (in the polite way of saying it), turn it into criticisms of the externals. Look at virtually everyone new to JavaScript and web development as a great example of this. Even brilliant minds, when first introduced to the surprisi…

> Is that hard?

No, but he never said it was hard.

> What hoops are there?

it's not built into the HTTP request process, even though async HTTP is what you want... basically always. With the example, for every single type of request you have to create a new class. If you generalize the thing a bit, you only have to write an anonymous class every time.

He's comparing that to NSURLConnection where 3 out of the 4 constructors (well technically 1 constructor and 2 initializers) are asynchronous and simply take a request and a delegate (total: one line).

Re: "Android Tools Are Horrendous, OS Is Hideous," FB iPhone Dev Joe Hewitt Tweets

#35

Post by refulgentis »

ergo98 wrote: post #29
timcederman wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually found reading through his tweets that a lot were valid criticisms. I'm disappointed that there is such a "fanboy" divide on Apple vs Android. Why can't we acknowledge there are pros and cons of both and accept that different things bother people differently?

There are absolutely pros and cons of both. There is no question about it. However Joe is being used as a pawn with people quoting over his over-the-top hyperbole like "Android tools are horrendous, OS is hideous". That isn't a "pro and con" point. I somewhat sense that Joe is perhaps still fighting his evangelical battle about the Apple thing (note that I'm not taking his Tweets as ultra serious, and I picture some…

That's how media works. I'd argue that some of the news stories that came out about him quitting over App Store policy were over-the-top hyperbole.

Re: "Android Tools Are Horrendous, OS Is Hideous," FB iPhone Dev Joe Hewitt Tweets

#36

Post by weaksauce »

ergo98 wrote: post #12

Reading his comments, he sounds like many developers when faced with tools they aren't accustomed to using languages they aren't competent at: Instead of acknowledging confusion and ignorance (in the polite way of saying it), turn it into criticisms of the externals. Look at virtually everyone new to JavaScript and web development as a great example of this. Even brilliant minds, when first introduced to the surprisi…

I agree that the way you show is easy. Could he have been doing it in some other fashion that is not that straightforward and assumed that it was the only way to do it? Probably. Was he jumping the gun by saying that there were too many hoops. Definitely.

Re: "Android Tools Are Horrendous, OS Is Hideous," FB iPhone Dev Joe Hewitt Tweets

#37

Post by chunkbot »

joehewitt wrote: post #33
ergo98 wrote: post #12

Reading his comments, he sounds like many developers when faced with tools they aren't accustomed to using languages they aren't competent at: Instead of acknowledging confusion and ignorance (in the polite way of saying it), turn it into criticisms of the externals. Look at virtually everyone new to JavaScript and web development as a great example of this. Even brilliant minds, when first introduced to the surprisi…

I never said it was "hard", just that I was surprised that the simple task of "get me this URL" required me to work with some abstract classes for "async tasks". Strikes me as overengineering. The networking classes could easily encapsulate the threading stuff and let me just stay on the UI thread, as every other networking library I've ever worked with has done. I've found other places in the Android SDK when, rathe…

I love that here on HN you frequently get comments from the original author or subject of the article.

Re: "Android Tools Are Horrendous, OS Is Hideous," FB iPhone Dev Joe Hewitt Tweets

#38

Post by ergo98 »

joehewitt wrote: post #33
ergo98 wrote: post #12

Reading his comments, he sounds like many developers when faced with tools they aren't accustomed to using languages they aren't competent at: Instead of acknowledging confusion and ignorance (in the polite way of saying it), turn it into criticisms of the externals. Look at virtually everyone new to JavaScript and web development as a great example of this. Even brilliant minds, when first introduced to the surprisi…

I never said it was "hard", just that I was surprised that the simple task of "get me this URL" required me to work with some abstract classes for "async tasks". Strikes me as overengineering. The networking classes could easily encapsulate the threading stuff and let me just stay on the UI thread, as every other networking library I've ever worked with has done. I've found other places in the Android SDK when, rathe…

>You can accuse me of being "confused and ignorant"

It isn't an accusation or an insult: Every developer on the planet has recurring periods where they are confused and ignorant. I can't make any such a claim in this case, but can only point out that such public displays often grow from such temporary roots.

However yes I cede a thousandfold that Android has an endless array of quirks and nuances that seem...non-optimal. Parts of the API show their Google lineage, while other parts draw from the Java norm. And on the "quirksmode" thing, couldn't agree more.

It was the "Android Tools Are Horrendous, OS Is Hideous" bit that caught my eye: I can't imagine someone seriously developing for something they consider hideous, with horrendous tools, especially when they have shown themselves to be principled.

Re: "Android Tools Are Horrendous, OS Is Hideous," FB iPhone Dev Joe Hewitt Tweets

#39

Post by gte910h »

cma wrote: post #14
gte910h wrote: post #2

Agreed. (I run a product development shop mostly working on mobile projects these days). As a former embedded Linux developer, I really really want android to knock the socks off of the world. But its not. Problems: Its carrier based OS update model causes hideous OS Version fragmentation. Eclipse is so painful to use many people just avoid it and use the command line tools. You have to write Java. There are a dozen…

Android allows you to install apps from any source; people in other countries can sell apps through other channels. Can't do that on the iPhone.

The issue is not that they can sell

It's that they can't sell easily so are instead giving away their product, effectively flooding the market with free goods.

Re: "Android Tools Are Horrendous, OS Is Hideous," FB iPhone Dev Joe Hewitt Tweets

#40

Post by joehewitt »

ergo98 wrote: post #38
joehewitt wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said it was "hard", just that I was surprised that the simple task of "get me this URL" required me to work with some abstract classes for "async tasks". Strikes me as overengineering. The networking classes could easily encapsulate the threading stuff and let me just stay on the UI thread, as every other networking library I've ever worked with has done. I've found other places in the Android SDK when, rathe…

>You can accuse me of being "confused and ignorant" It isn't an accusation or an insult: Every developer on the planet has recurring periods where they are confused and ignorant. I can't make any such a claim in this case, but can only point out that such public displays often grow from such temporary roots. However yes I cede a thousandfold that Android has an endless array of quirks and nuances that seem...non-opti…

I am obviously expecting that in a few years time Android will suck much less, or I wouldn't bother investing time in it.
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