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Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

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Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#101

Post by tasuki »

ddorian43 wrote: post #75
arximboldi wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. I did the math in the past because I seriously considered moving to the US cuz I got an offer there. In my estimates, you would end up spending the same % of your salary in surviving, but of course the remaining let's say 30%, is simply a lot. Also a lot of things are not really that expensive (most things that are not housing, or maybe eating out.) And when you get out of the Junior level, I think the di…

Get a remote US job ? Harder since you compete with many people but doable.

Most US-based companies are vary of hiring remotely from Europe. As a worker, I'm not sure I'd want to work from 4pm till midnight. The timezone difference makes collaboration difficult. South America seems to be in a much better position here.

Obviously, there are also US-based companies with globally distributed remote workforce, but those are a minority.

Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#102

Post by nvarsj »

luckydata wrote: post #19
banku_brougham wrote: post #13

To the puzzle about developer comp outstripping EE or other engineering disciplines pay (ie Civil Engineering god help me), I agree that the student in those fields could apply themselves to become able programmers. So why the huge disparity in pay? I have two ideas: 1. Lots of technically able people still don’t enjoy plugging their mind into a machine. Its probably hard to believe in the HN community but many peopl…

Engineer turned product manager here: there is way too much yak shaving involved in bring a software engineer. Dealing with all the poorly written libraries, unpredictable bugs and shitty APIs made me realize it wasn't something I wanted to do 12 hours per day for the rest of my life. I enjoy the intellectual challenge but I enjoy less figuring out which version of which package crashes my app

You're definitely on to something here. This is probably also why engineers like to 1. rebuild everything from scratch (but better!) 2. can't handle staying at a company more than a few years.

Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#103

Post by gaius »

stochastic_monk wrote: post #94
gaius wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How different is a MechEng writing FORTRAN for mechanical engineering from a MechEng writing RoR for trendy widget bean button SV startup Because in scenario A the main skill being applied is mechanical engineering and in scenario B the main skill being applied is RoR. If everyone who ever writes a line of code is a "software developer" would you include an Excel VBA 10-liner writer? Probably not, and nor would that…

I don’t typically think of web developers as software engineers. I think of work like FFTW and the Tensor Algebra COmpiler (TACO) as software engineering.

Whereas when I say "software engineering" I am referring to formal methods, or software components of engineered systems e.g. avionics. Nevertheless - the point is that lots of professions automate themselves. Now that I think about it even a doctor who invents a more effective treatment lessening the workload of other doctors is using medicine to automate medicine.

Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#104

Post by [deleted] »

fahadkhan wrote: post #51
billysielu wrote: post #39

Developer salaries in the UK are very modest. Companies don't even know how to identify good developers, so they have no hope of competing over them.

According to www.itjobswatch.co.uk a senior Java developer earns £70k. But can command day rate of £575. That works out at about double. Suggestion it is bimodal.

[deleted]

Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#105

Post by nvarsj »

gaius wrote: post #29
eksemplar wrote: post #3

As a manager I’d probably advice against picking programming unless you love it. In our educational system the increase in short-length programming classes at academy level has exploded and I doubt the market will keep up. Really great comp science or engineering students won’t ever have a problem, but I fully expect the short-length, autodidact or mediocre students to be entering a saturated market within the next f…

As a manager I’d probably advice against picking programming unless you love it. That is the dirty little secret of our industry. You need to do your day job AND on your own time, keep your skills up to date, and/or work on open source and/or write a blog or something. There was a post on there the other day on how keeping up to date with k8s is a full-time job in and of itself, well you need to do that - and a bunch…

> You need to do your day job AND on your own time, keep your skills up to date, and/or work on open source and/or write a blog or something.

Not just that! Don't forget about attending a dozen conferences a year, doing talks, and local meetups.

Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#107

Post by Consultant32452 »

gaius wrote: post #50
collyw wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the occasional expectation that you should have a blog to make you a decent developer annoys me. I am pretty poor at writing and don't have a lot to say that I want to broadcast to the world. Answering Stak Overflow questions suits me better as a way of demonstrating that I know something.

a way of demonstrating that I know something It's the expectation that you need to demonstrate it at all, is the problem. How many lawyers sue people for fun so they can blog about it, how many doctors do surgery at home and stream "live cutting"? We have created a treadmill that we can't step off

I think this is largely a myth. I don't have any of my work in a public space. In my area I'm in the top 5% of the salary range. Maybe this is more prominent in silicon valley? I've personally never even been asked for any kind of portfolio.

Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#108

Post by [deleted] »

yuzulicious wrote: post #44

Almost all professional and semi-professional salaries are becoming bimodal. I'm too tired at the moment to look this up, but the NY Times had a piece sometime in the last couple of years where they were discussing income distributions, and had an interactive, and what they looked like, almost across the board, was a bigger lower mode, and then a second, smaller, more spiked mode much higher. What struck me about tha…

[deleted]

Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#109

Post by ddorian43 »

dx034 wrote: post #97
ddorian43 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't health insurance, like, 100-200 month ??? You all acting like it's a big deal. (nl stats, student DE pays 80/month)

Probably 250/month for health insurance plus 20% pension contribution and few unemployment benefits.

Programmers don't need unemployment benefits. You can always find a job. Maybe unable-to-work (like accidents etc) insurance.

Re: Is developer compensation becoming bimodal?

#110

Post by ddorian43 »

tasuki wrote: post #101
ddorian43 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get a remote US job ? Harder since you compete with many people but doable.

Most US-based companies are vary of hiring remotely from Europe. As a worker, I'm not sure I'd want to work from 4pm till midnight. The timezone difference makes collaboration difficult. South America seems to be in a much better position here. Obviously, there are also US-based companies with globally distributed remote workforce, but those are a minority.

Yeah, but still many with "work on your own timezone and just meeting at 4pm".
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