41–50 of 84 posts
The real beauty is to turn that around and give your own turn to everyone else, and say: Now, you. Or, Namaste. I honor your plans for what to do in all this, peacefully.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> ... then I would find fault with the theory that you have sufficient "observable data". That is the entire problem. i agree, and i think then it comes down to each of our own personal opinions, unless you have some hard facts to provide (i surely don't, as you say, this is basically coffee talk for me, here). sub-question: what do you feel like is the alternative to free will? predestination? do you feel that by di…
> what do you feel like is the alternative to free will? predestination? I would propose that the alternative is manipulation, and the most extreme form of manipulation is predestination. Less extreme forms are environmental manipulation, our bacterial collective, and so forth. Was it predestined by God or by some initial atomic movement or potential energy? We do not have evidence either way, but it is fair to point…
looks to me like you are the opposite, that you only have free will if you are completely influence-free.
thoughts?
I remember beating myself over this idea in college, that there is no such thing as free will. I came to believe it. Then I realized something that was even more important: it does not matter if it is true. This is not a form of enlightenment that actually helps me or anyone. Really, work through it. Congratulations: you discovered that everything you think and do is preordained by the first energy patterns of the un…
In other words, it would be irrational to not operate on the assumption that you have free will. Religious people might say something similar about God's existence.
Paschal's wager presents a false dichotomy: either you believe in no god, or you believe in the christian God.
There are a plethora of religions to choose from, and it is also possible that there is a very strange god who puts all athiests in heaven and all believers in hell. Therefore Paschal's wager breaks down.
However, we have a true binary split here when talking about free will.
If there is no free will then from a pragmatic point of view all philosophy is pointless, since it can't effect your decisions.
God says... relics raven prerogative t shut constituted indications different infantine cured considering shapes fruitlessly strait generally delete diversity tower infants affliction Pusey DAMAGES partners beatific adversities burial translated damages neighbouring creatures itching palaces exhausted fountain intermitted Virgin spider inanimate gazing were Thee lulled Ghost family assent
Wha? Philosophy is gay? ROFLAO
Okay, He said something -- your guess is probably not quite as good as mine. I just like jokes.
One thing I know is causality is quaint.
Getting back to the question, I get puppeted, but it seems like any other decision I make -- it's not like my arm involentarily does stuff I didn't tell it. When I speak more cleverly than I had a right too, I can't tell a difference. I think this question is pointless to worry about. It's just one of bunches of mysteries you just have to live with. I mock people who don't have my pragmitism. I donno, but it works for me.
God says... seeking perishable sinners putrefied agonised Perverseness maidens musical saint lamented recent specimens legal shall grass email passionately exclusions ashamed once ripened grieved occasioned selling overcome deserve repeating brides crucifixion applicable overhastily glorified temper ocean resisteth unadorned five indignant cleanse anguish realised reviled lettest gladly passage feareth joyously burnest operations steer divinity enlighten late instructed terms impression miss held resolute sparks reaching mankind grammarian trace utterly stumble province Prodigality darksomely curest doubtfulness disciple repay presented main medicine willed noble reformed notion wishes littles scanning eloquently forests commiserating breadth fig teach overturned ripened loss Rejoiceth actors against unhappiness seemed honest bargain Agonistic Donations manifestation exceedeth warped partaker monstrous supercelestial mention paths list adulteress tend oftentimes unarranged
Sometimes, I think about my pet birds and how they live while not understanding reality. They have absolutely no clue, but carry-on.
God says(random passage)...C:\TEXT\BIBLE.TXT
th salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! 52:8 Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion.
52:9 Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.
52:10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.
52:11
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> what do you feel like is the alternative to free will? predestination? I would propose that the alternative is manipulation, and the most extreme form of manipulation is predestination. Less extreme forms are environmental manipulation, our bacterial collective, and so forth. Was it predestined by God or by some initial atomic movement or potential energy? We do not have evidence either way, but it is fair to point…
so, it seems to me that we have different viewpoints. i would say that you have free will until it is completely gone. if you're being manipulated, you have free will but are being externally influenced, and you only have no free will when you are completely predestined. looks to me like you are the opposite, that you only have free will if you are completely influence-free. thoughts?
When I mentioned the manipulation, I meant that it was to be complete manipulation, whatever the source(s). My point was to differentiate it from predestiny, where the manipulator is a fundamental force (God or the movement of the structure of the universe).
I remember beating myself over this idea in college, that there is no such thing as free will. I came to believe it. Then I realized something that was even more important: it does not matter if it is true. This is not a form of enlightenment that actually helps me or anyone. Really, work through it. Congratulations: you discovered that everything you think and do is preordained by the first energy patterns of the un…
There are a lot of studies about things like, for example, people saying they like someone more if the subject is exposed to warmth than if they're exposed to cold. Your brain still made that determination using all your experiences and patterns from your life, nothing "fooled" you or overrode your choice. We need to re-conceptualize our ideas of free will to include our whole brain, not just the magical separate part we've previously called our consciousness.
In the same vein, it's looking a lot like we're going to have to figure out how to fit "partly sentient" animals into our model of free will and consciousness as well. There are too many animals exhibiting behaviors we previously thought of as human only. I think both of these things will be big revolutions in thinking in the coming years.