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U.S. senators ask consumer watchdog head for details on Equifax probe

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Re: U.S. senators ask consumer watchdog head for details on Equifax probe

#31
Equifax is bad, but the CFPB is much worse. Its rules and actions are immune to oversight by any other body, including Congress and the Judiciary. It draws funding directly from the Federal Reserve instead of being funded by Congress.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/norbertmichel/2017/01/24/the-cf...

Re: U.S. senators ask consumer watchdog head for details on Equifax probe

#32
post #25
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they think it's the government's fault, that's not necessarily a barrier to agreement on a course of action. If there's a law that can pass that libertarians can call "deregulation" I could potentially get behind it so long as it has the desired effect. For instance, it's my understanding that laws exist which protect the big three credit authorities. What are those laws, and what the prospects for changing them?

Don't expect anything. Libertarians have no real answer for health care and they have no real answer for dealing with the credit agencies.

Yes they do, you just don't like that the answer is let them die.

Re: U.S. senators ask consumer watchdog head for details on Equifax probe

#33
post #32
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't expect anything. Libertarians have no real answer for health care and they have no real answer for dealing with the credit agencies.

Yes they do, you just don't like that the answer is let them die.

I love the answer of letting them die. The negative externalities of the big three CRAs exceed value they provide and if the market could respond to those externalities, they would go under.

However, would whatever replaces the big three exhibit the same negative externalities and recreate the same situation of market failure?

Re: U.S. senators ask consumer watchdog head for details on Equifax probe

#34
post #32
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't expect anything. Libertarians have no real answer for health care and they have no real answer for dealing with the credit agencies.

Yes they do, you just don't like that the answer is let them die.

It seems like they don’t like that answer very much either. In my experience, it’s really hard to get that out of most libertarians.

Re: U.S. senators ask consumer watchdog head for details on Equifax probe

#35
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Was it inevitable that the Equifax situation became partisan? I'm not so sure it's the Equifax situation here, but rather the CFPB that's the target of partisan lashings. The CFPB has been criticized by both the left and right at various times for overspending, lack of oversight, lack of results, and especially it's fundamental structure - in fact it was even ruled unconstitutional by a DC circuit court. The ruling…

Someone needs to pull rank and take over or start an investigation outside of the CFPB. They clearly aren’t doing their job, and now it has become stupid to simply ask them to start doing it.

The CFPB was doing its job until Director Cordray resigned and Trump appointed Mulvaney to be Acting Director. There is even a pending lawsuit about it: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/11/28/judg...

Re: U.S. senators ask consumer watchdog head for details on Equifax probe

#36
post #33
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they do, you just don't like that the answer is let them die.

I love the answer of letting them die. The negative externalities of the big three CRAs exceed value they provide and if the market could respond to those externalities, they would go under. However, would whatever replaces the big three exhibit the same negative externalities and recreate the same situation of market failure?

I think the more apt comparison to letting people die if they can afford healthcare is for Equifax to make all their data public, and you can pay Equifax a couple thousand a month to make data about you private.

Re: U.S. senators ask consumer watchdog head for details on Equifax probe

#37
post #36
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the answer of letting them die. The negative externalities of the big three CRAs exceed value they provide and if the market could respond to those externalities, they would go under. However, would whatever replaces the big three exhibit the same negative externalities and recreate the same situation of market failure?

I think the more apt comparison to letting people die if they can afford healthcare is for Equifax to make all their data public, and you can pay Equifax a couple thousand a month to make data about you private.

Meh, I misunderstood who "let them die" refer to -- I thought it was the CRAs, not people. :\

I still feel like your analogy doesn't adequately capture the negative externality in the identity theft that the CRAs enable. In a healthy marketplace, the cost of that identity theft would be borne by the people who profit from it, not innocent third parties.

How do we get to a marketplace where that crushing cost falls upon the deserving party, dissuading them from their destructive course? We need to acknowledge that the quantitative change in the accessibility of personal credit information amounts to a qualitative change, justifying a rethink about who owns it.

Re: U.S. senators ask consumer watchdog head for details on Equifax probe

#38

A previous HN discussion, possibly on Equifax now that I think about it, had a comment recommending the book "The Chickenshit Club", about why the justice department doesn't prosecute. I just finished in it a discussion of Enron and their auditors, Arthur Andersen. The justice department prosecuted Andersen (one of the "big 5" accounting firms at the time), and there was a lot of backlash about the Justice Dept "kill…

Second the recommendation for Chickenshit Club (also helps interpret the speed and proceedings of other DOJ cases in play). Equifax is largely embedded in our business/credit infrastructure and there would be collateral consequences for all of the businesses who would have to change as a result of their punishment/demise. This in no way absolves them from responsibility but DOJ pragmatism towards corporations is they…

Fine that represents the actual societal harm. If they can't pay it, shut down - fine cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.

If the services in question are so essential that the government doesn't want it to shut down, then the government should take it over like they did with Freddie and Fannie

Re: U.S. senators ask consumer watchdog head for details on Equifax probe

#39
post #37
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the more apt comparison to letting people die if they can afford healthcare is for Equifax to make all their data public, and you can pay Equifax a couple thousand a month to make data about you private.

Meh, I misunderstood who "let them die" refer to -- I thought it was the CRAs, not people. :\ I still feel like your analogy doesn't adequately capture the negative externality in the identity theft that the CRAs enable. In a healthy marketplace, the cost of that identity theft would be borne by the people who profit from it, not innocent third parties. How do we get to a marketplace where that crushing cost falls up…

> Meh, I misunderstood who "let them die" refer to -- I thought it was the CRAs not people.

No, you understood correctly the first time.

Re: U.S. senators ask consumer watchdog head for details on Equifax probe

#40

A previous HN discussion, possibly on Equifax now that I think about it, had a comment recommending the book "The Chickenshit Club", about why the justice department doesn't prosecute. I just finished in it a discussion of Enron and their auditors, Arthur Andersen. The justice department prosecuted Andersen (one of the "big 5" accounting firms at the time), and there was a lot of backlash about the Justice Dept "kill…

Second the recommendation for Chickenshit Club (also helps interpret the speed and proceedings of other DOJ cases in play). Equifax is largely embedded in our business/credit infrastructure and there would be collateral consequences for all of the businesses who would have to change as a result of their punishment/demise. This in no way absolves them from responsibility but DOJ pragmatism towards corporations is they…

I think you are overestimating their importance. The credit agencies have already pretty much proven to us that they can't accurately rate risk when their fees are on the line.
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