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Google is buying Chelsea Market building for over $2B

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Re: Google is buying Chelsea Market building for over $2B

#61

Post by toomuchtodo »

sumeno wrote: post #55
toomuchtodo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yep, wealthy land owners, clearly the group that needs protecting. Wealthy land owners = citizens who have most of their personal wealth/retirements savings tied up in the equity of their home that has slowly appreciated over years or decades. How terribly different than tech companies and employees using copyright (source code) and vast quantities of data to reap enormous returns and salaries (respectively). This…

So NYC aside, what is your answer for cities? How does a city improve itself without bringing in new jobs and tax revenue? Should a city just let buildings sit there and rot instead of selling them to a company that wants to create hundreds or thousands of jobs?

No tax credits for businesses (See: Amazon). You pay a tax per head of employee you intend to employee onsite that covers infrastructure and subsidizing affordable housing.

If you're a going concern, affordability should not be an issue. Otherwise, you're straining infrastructure and housing with marginal benefits to the host city. Hire remote instead.

Re: Google is buying Chelsea Market building for over $2B

#62

Post by [deleted] »

hux_ wrote: post #56
yeukhon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want the entire building badly for years now so it makes sense to overpay and grab the deal right now before another developer comes in with a more competitive offer, knowing Google would not move away! $2B for this is not expensive, considered how much they had paid to other short-term leases. Moving to and decorating new office space will cost them many millions. If they can own the building, $2B is a big savi…

For $2B you could probably buy a nice village by the sea with great weather all year round. Having worked in downtown NYC, I'd pick a beach any day of the week. But I can see the value of a large marketing, finance and sales presence for a Google type firm in the city. Engineering not so much.

[deleted]

Re: Google is buying Chelsea Market building for over $2B

#63

Post by yeukhon »

hux_ wrote: post #56
yeukhon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want the entire building badly for years now so it makes sense to overpay and grab the deal right now before another developer comes in with a more competitive offer, knowing Google would not move away! $2B for this is not expensive, considered how much they had paid to other short-term leases. Moving to and decorating new office space will cost them many millions. If they can own the building, $2B is a big savi…

For $2B you could probably buy a nice village by the sea with great weather all year round. Having worked in downtown NYC, I'd pick a beach any day of the week. But I can see the value of a large marketing, finance and sales presence for a Google type firm in the city. Engineering not so much.

I agree. I think the convenience of locating in Manhattan makes sense. For CA, since everyone travels, it doesn't matter (though they do have an office in SF!) I wouldn't mind traveling to NJ if Google picks me up like Google does in CA :-) Bell Lab would have been the perfect campus location for Google :/ (see [1])

[1]: https://www.investors.com/news/once-empty-bell-labs-building...

Re: Google is buying Chelsea Market building for over $2B

#64

Post by jagger27 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #38
djtriptych wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google already occupies the majority of the space above the market - at least 3 full floors (As of a couple years ago). It's not much of a change for any New Yorkers except that they tend not to renew leases for other office space tenants.

New York Googler here. Chelsea Market is actually 19 different buildings on the same block that have merged together over time. The floor layout is truly crazy. Some floors are staggered by a full half height at the interface between buildings, there are exterior courtyards on the inside of the block that are roofed over, and buildings are of differing height. You can see it all on Google Maps; contrast with 111 8th…

So they're buying the entire block? $2 billion seems cheap all of a sudden.

That hodgepodge mess of buildings really appeals to my inner Lego-building child.

Re: Google is buying Chelsea Market building for over $2B

#65

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #25
toomuchtodo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SFBA, Seattle, Major Colorado Metros, Austin, Nashville, Cambridge/Boston, Raleigh-Durham. That's not fear. That's pattern recognition. > Fast-growing technology sector is fueling a housing boom in cities across America https://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/fast-growing-techn...

Places that have gotten expensive because they've become desirable places to live and convinced lots of people to move there? The horror! The only real problem here is shitty local governance and NIMBYism that refuses to acknowledge reality and build more housing . In the end, it doesn't stop people from moving there, it just drives up costs and drives out natives and people lower on the socioeconomic ladder. If you…

There are a couple issues with this. First, people who lived in these cities often moved there because it wasn't nearly as dense or urban feeling as bigger cities like NYC. Those cities are being basically forced to change their fundamental character just so large corporations benefit. I think it's understandable that locals would be mad.

Second, economic growth has been incredibly uneven and concentrated to just a handful of urban centers of the nation. This creates real problems. Economic inequality is amplified, and those sections of the population are separated from each other, insulating each other from the economic differences. Families, the poor, and the unexperienced simply don't have the leverage required to safely move away from their support structures into completely new cities without facing major issues. Why should economic growth be so constrained to such small areas just so big corporations benefit from cheaper labor?

Re: Google is buying Chelsea Market building for over $2B

#67

Post by s73v3r_ »

RangerScience wrote: post #35
toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've only become desirable because of an influx of tech employers. Ergo, it makes sense for non-tech employed citizens to not want those employers to locate there (or expand). Also, existing citizens who own and live in these locations take priority over people who want to move in. No one is entitled to additional housing when tech companies foist externalities of additional workers (workers who could work remotel…

> existing citizens who own and live in these locations take priority Yep, wealthy land owners, clearly the group that needs protecting. Actually, can anyone name a major US city where most of the growth came from itself, rather than an influx?

At the same time, these tech companies moving in tend to drive rents up unsustainably, causing huge problems for the many citizens of those cities that aren't wealthy land owners.

Re: Google is buying Chelsea Market building for over $2B

#68

Post by ChuckMcM »

cletus wrote: post #47

NYC Xoogler here. Speaking from experience, the main office (111 8th/76 9th) is amazing. I think Google's decision to buy that years ago has totally been vindicated. I'm surprised more high cash surplus companies don't do this, just to control their destiny in a way you simply can't as a tenant (eg if you're a large tenant, each floor you rent in the same building is going to get more expensive, being a tenant limits…

I totally agree.

Fun historical note, IBM generated cash in its early days as Google and Apple do today, it bought a lot of real estate all around the world. In the 90's when it seemed liked it was doomed, it "saved itself" by selling off big chunks of that real estate. That gave the company operating capital without having to go to the equity markets or debt markets.

Given the ups and downs of tech, it seems like a much better place to hold your spare cash than t-bills or other cash equivalent securities.

Re: Google is buying Chelsea Market building for over $2B

#69

Post by jstarfish »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #25
toomuchtodo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SFBA, Seattle, Major Colorado Metros, Austin, Nashville, Cambridge/Boston, Raleigh-Durham. That's not fear. That's pattern recognition. > Fast-growing technology sector is fueling a housing boom in cities across America https://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/fast-growing-techn...

Places that have gotten expensive because they've become desirable places to live and convinced lots of people to move there? The horror! The only real problem here is shitty local governance and NIMBYism that refuses to acknowledge reality and build more housing . In the end, it doesn't stop people from moving there, it just drives up costs and drives out natives and people lower on the socioeconomic ladder. If you…

> The only real problem here is shitty local governance and NIMBYism that refuses to acknowledge reality and build more housing. In the end, it doesn't stop people from moving there, it just drives up costs and drives out natives and people lower on the socioeconomic ladder. If you want affordable housing markets, you have to build housing in response to demand.

Once housing prices skyrocket and the cheapest buy-in starts at $700k+, nobody is in a rush to build housing for low-income demographics. New development is always just as unaffordably priced, and will continue to be until the current bubble bursts and a recession happens.

Re: Google is buying Chelsea Market building for over $2B

#70

Post by eric_h »

jagger27 wrote: post #64
CydeWeys wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York Googler here. Chelsea Market is actually 19 different buildings on the same block that have merged together over time. The floor layout is truly crazy. Some floors are staggered by a full half height at the interface between buildings, there are exterior courtyards on the inside of the block that are roofed over, and buildings are of differing height. You can see it all on Google Maps; contrast with 111 8th…

So they're buying the entire block? $2 billion seems cheap all of a sudden. That hodgepodge mess of buildings really appeals to my inner Lego-building child.

The building they purchased in 2010 (111 8th Ave) is a full city block that they picked up for $1.9 billion - seems to be the going rate for a block in Chelsea.
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