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HP EliteBook: A friend to the User

ifixit.org

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Re: HP EliteBook: A friend to the User

#61

Post by willtim »

Xylakant wrote: post #59
willtim wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Thinkpad Carbon X1 has a user-replaceable battery and is practically the same weight and size as a MacBook Air. So it is certainly not a compromise I agree with. The "disposable" label was a bit harsh, but there are other compromises in the MacBook Pro, for example the SSD, which is more prone to failure than other components, is soldered on to the logic board.

We may have a different notion of "user-replaceable". I'd only consider a battery that can be swapped without opening up the laptop user-replaceable. Soldering the components to the board is the same kind of trade-off: It saves weight, space and increases battery lifetime. You also compare the relatively new X1 with an outdated (though still sold) Macbook that was designed and built at a time when no laptop even got…

On the X1 Carbon, you will have to remove some screws, but Lenovo provide a guide to the process: https://support.lenovo.com/gb/en/solutions/pd103715

I believe the latest X1 Carbon weighs significantly less than a MacBook Pro.

Re: HP EliteBook: A friend to the User

#62

Post by Xylakant »

willtim wrote: post #61
Xylakant wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We may have a different notion of "user-replaceable". I'd only consider a battery that can be swapped without opening up the laptop user-replaceable. Soldering the components to the board is the same kind of trade-off: It saves weight, space and increases battery lifetime. You also compare the relatively new X1 with an outdated (though still sold) Macbook that was designed and built at a time when no laptop even got…

On the X1 Carbon, you will have to remove some screws, but Lenovo provide a guide to the process: https://support.lenovo.com/gb/en/solutions/pd103715 I believe the latest X1 Carbon weighs significantly less than a MacBook Pro.

You’d be surprised: 1.39kg for the carbon, 1.37kg for the MacBook (13”) The latest Pro models are comparable to the Airs in weight.

Re: HP EliteBook: A friend to the User

#63

Post by mrtksn »

willtim wrote: post #58
mrtksn wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Apple just recently slowed down the phones with poor battery conditions. As for the easiness of battery replacement, you can check out iFixit as they literally rate devices on that metric. Here is the rating for the iPhone 6s: https://www.ifixit.com/Device/iPhone_6s As for the uninformed public, that’s not really a future of the iPhone :) The public is misinformed about many things. For example, up until now, y…

None of your ifixit links disprove my claim that "People are upgrading to new iPhones because their glued-in battery is end-of-life". > The public is misinformed about many things. No, this is different. There is a conflict of interest here, it is not in Apples interest to promote battery replacement. > For example, up until now, you were among those people. Please try to debate with politeness and good manners.

I didn’t mean to be rude, i just think that you’re not well informed about the repairability of the iPhones.

Oh and you’re the one who needs to prove your claim. We can’t assume that claims on the internet are true until proven otherwise.

I provided the links to inform you about the repair options and the difficulty of those.

Re: HP EliteBook: A friend to the User

#64

Post by timrichard »

grumpyprole wrote: post #25

Another counterexample to the "Apple make the best hardware" meme that is so often repeated. I find the whole concept of a disposable 1000+ dollar machine with a glued-in battery rather abhorrent.

I don't agree with the "disposable tablet" thing from the article.

I'm typing this on a 2012 MacBook Air, which I've been using as a freelance dev as a primary machine on client sites since that year. It's used for full stack development and Docker builds that get deployed to AWS.

It hasn't worn out, or become noticeably slower (I remember the days of registry bloat on previous Windows machines). I did get the glued-in battery replaced once during that time, which cost me £100 at a nearby Apple store.

I had previously avoided Apple kit for years because of the whole "planned obsolescence, so it's rented not bought" thing, but in hindsight I don't think it was really an issue.

Re: HP EliteBook: A friend to the User

#65

Post by pletnes »

raesene9 wrote: post #16

This kind of repairability has been a general feature of "enterprise" friendly laptops like ThinkPads and Elitebooks for a while. I've had an Elitebook 840 for 4 years now, great laptop, very solid, still working well. The repairability is handy for me in two ways. 1) If I want to upgrade/replace the storage I can do that easily, so I was able to upgrade to a 512GB SSD without any problems. 2) As the laptop gets olde…

Repairability is a good thing. That being said, the 5 year old macbook pro I replaced had way better battery life than the then-new HP 840 G3 I am now using day to day.

Re: HP EliteBook: A friend to the User

#66

Post by pletnes »

aidos wrote: post #46
Xylakant wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinkpads might be a good option. Linux support is fairly good, especially the older models and the T-Series does have some models with upgradable RAM and battery. (Not the slim T4x0s)

I did have a look at Thinkpads but was somewhat overwhelmed by the number of models. Will have a look at the T series to see what's around. Thanks for the tip.

The W series are workstations. Solid, fast, heavy, expensive.

Re: HP EliteBook: A friend to the User

#67

Post by Xylakant »

aidos wrote: post #46
Xylakant wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinkpads might be a good option. Linux support is fairly good, especially the older models and the T-Series does have some models with upgradable RAM and battery. (Not the slim T4x0s)

I did have a look at Thinkpads but was somewhat overwhelmed by the number of models. Will have a look at the T series to see what's around. Thanks for the tip.

I’m somewhat in love with the older x2x0 as well, rock solid machines that can take a beating, small and lightweight, good Linux support as well.

Re: HP EliteBook: A friend to the User

#68

Post by willtim »

mrtksn wrote: post #63
willtim wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of your ifixit links disprove my claim that "People are upgrading to new iPhones because their glued-in battery is end-of-life". > The public is misinformed about many things. No, this is different. There is a conflict of interest here, it is not in Apples interest to promote battery replacement. > For example, up until now, you were among those people. Please try to debate with politeness and good manners.

I didn’t mean to be rude, i just think that you’re not well informed about the repairability of the iPhones. Oh and you’re the one who needs to prove your claim. We can’t assume that claims on the internet are true until proven otherwise. I provided the links to inform you about the repair options and the difficulty of those.

I think it is well known and proven that people upgrade every two years when the contract expires. My claim is only that the built-in battery contributes to this, you are free to disagree, but it is difficult to prove either way. Your ifixit links certainly do not prove battery replacement is easy. Specialist tools are involved, this is how iFixit makes its money.

Re: HP EliteBook: A friend to the User

#69

Post by chrisper »

mrtksn wrote: post #21
chrisper wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Repairability: -Then the device stays 100% under my control (don't have to wipe it before sending it to technician etc.) -I know I am repairing it. (You won't get it back with the notice it is fixed, but then nothing changed) -Tinkering is fun -Faster to get it repaired if you can get the part.

Tinkering with laptops is fun until you have better things to thinker with if that laptop was working in first place.

This logic does not make sense. Do you never repair anything in your home? Do you always just only buy a home if everything will always work 100%?

Re: HP EliteBook: A friend to the User

#70

Post by dahauns »

pizza234 wrote: post #51
dahauns wrote: post #32

Two models I'd like to add to this as examples that this is actually possible with all form factors: First the The HP Elite X2, a Surface Pro-class tablet. Quite analogous to the EliteBook - sadly the RAM is soldered (IIRC one of their first actually still had a SODIMM slot): https://ifixit.org/blog/8135/hats-off-to-hps-repairable-tabl... https://ifixit.org/blog/9309/hp-elite-x2-1012-g2/ And second, the Fujitsu Lifeb…

> The HP Elite X2, a Surface Pro-class tablet This tablet is absolutely fascinating; it turns the "cost of repairability" of a pro-tablet into a material measurement : 100g on 700g (14%). I wonder, all things being equal (which of course, it's not realistic), what's the impact on the attractiveness to the general (not HN) public. It would be significant even it if would conquer a "solid nieche". To make an interestin…

Indeed, this is something I've wondered myself, since in my experience even 100g does make a big difference in a tablet. But I've come to the conclusion - it's hard to really pinpoint the "cost of repairability".

Taking the numbers:

    IPad Pro 12,9: 692g
    Surface Book 2 13: 719g
    Surface Pro 2017: 770g
    Elite X2 1012 G2: 800g
    Surface Book 2 15: 817g
Of course, the IPad pro shines, and apple certainly are famous for "shaving off every possible gram" - but it's just so different a platform, esp. thermals, that it's hard to make conclusions towards "cost of repairability". The Surface Book 2 tablet modules are light for their size, but I'd say this is primarily bought due to a significantly smaller battery compared to the SP and the Elite (23Wh vs 46/47Wh) - batteries are heavy.

The only devices here realistically comparable IMO would be the Surface Pro and the Elite X2.

But IMO the more interesting device I've posted for this kind of comparison (even though I wouldn't consider +/-100g that critical here as I would with tablets) is the Fujitsu U937, because it's one of the lightest x86 notebooks overall on the market, while still offering competitive specs in all metrics (CPU, RAM, ports, battery size, display size, etc.) and still being easy to repair/upgrade. (Too bad that keyboard and touchpad are rather mediocre :( )

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