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Americans are spending less on clothing

bloomberg.com

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Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#281

Post by skrause »

slowmotiony wrote: post #75
dandare wrote: post #8

European here: when visiting my company HQ I was surprised how casual Americans dress for work. I am not saying devs should wear suit and tie, nothing like that, but even my bosses boss* was wearing what looked like a rumpled sweater with worn out jeans. And I don't mean like fashion statement rumpled and worn out, more like the "great depression" crumpled and worn out. Jules and Vincent in their new t-shirts would f…

I wish Germany was like that. I work as a IT consultant in a financial institution and we all have to wear suits here, even though most of the people have never seen a client in their life - they just sit behind their desks and do their daily work on a PC. So they do so - in a suit. I really don't know why Germans do this to themselves.

> I really don't know why Germans do this to themselves.

It's not Germans that do this to themselves, it's people working in financial institutions. I work for a non-financial software company in Germany and nobody wears suits here unless you have an important client visit.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#282

Post by ryanianian »

tomc1985 wrote: post #262
ryanianian wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I see two things happening here: (1) American spending less on clothing and (2) Americans having less self-pride in their attire and presentation. I've spent a fair amount of time in Latin American countries, and a real sure-fire way to identify tourists is to look for people poorly-dressed or those who look like they just don't care about how they look. E.g., despite much of Mexico being quite hot, you will al…

ITT: Silly foreigners that need to spend more time traveling. None of this should be revelatory. People are different, and 'dress well' is subjective. Personally I want to punch most of these supposedly 'well dressed' people. They all look the same to me.

It's all subjective for sure. What I find interesting is that some cultures show a preference for clothes that are (imho) somewhat objectively less comfortable. Pants in humid climates. Suits at all. The history behind why things became the norm is interesting. This article shows how America is changing. This isn't a bad or good thing - it's just an interesting thing.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#283

Post by xamuel »

mathgeek wrote: post #189
johnpowell wrote: post #7

Maybe I just live in a weird place. But I see a lot less branding when I walk around town compared to 20 years ago. My sister has 17 year old twin girls and they pretty much refuse to wear anything that makes them a "walking billboard". I live close to the university of Oregon and when I was in high school it was all Nike clothes all over campus. Now I still see some but not nearly as much. It is like "Likes" instead…

I chalk this up to the culture/counter-culture cycle. When the trend is to wear logos, the next trend will usually be to wear clothes without logos (or with different logos), and vice-versa. An anecdote I like to look back to here is how Gap once sold mostly clothes with "GAP" prominently displayed, but nowadays is somewhere you can purchase an entire business casual wardrobe.

Think you might be on to something. When I was growing up, the counter-culture was liberal. Now, liberal is mainstream and the counter-culture is conservative. Never thought I'd see the day when a suit and tie would be the daring, non-conformist thing to wear! :)

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#284

Post by ryanianian »

eitally wrote: post #275
ryanianian wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I see two things happening here: (1) American spending less on clothing and (2) Americans having less self-pride in their attire and presentation. I've spent a fair amount of time in Latin American countries, and a real sure-fire way to identify tourists is to look for people poorly-dressed or those who look like they just don't care about how they look. E.g., despite much of Mexico being quite hot, you will al…

This definitely isn't true in Brazil. Brazil is at least as casual as the US.

That's interesting. Maybe even more-so (at least for me) since Brazil is a latin-american country but one with Portuguese roots as opposed to Spanish. I don't know if the different types of colonialism hundreds of years ago can really account for pants-vs-shorts but it's fun to play with the idea.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#285

Post by ghaff »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #173
bluedino wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Apparel is being displaced by travel, eating out and activities The apparel and technology spending lines basically mirror each other. Why is travel mentioned? Tech is the new status symbol for the masses. $600 phone instead of a $600 watch, leather jacket, etc

Travel is far more of a status symbol than tech. $600 iPhones and jackets don't compare to $5k safaris and hiking trips, not to mention even being able to have the time off to do it. Easiest way to stratify a group by wealth is start talking about where and how often they go on vacation.

Are you suggesting that people only go on vacation for the status? Or for that matter buy smartphones for that reason?

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#286

Post by ryanianian »

cortesoft wrote: post #259
ryanianian wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvoting because I think you took my comment in poor-faith. I didn't say wearing shorts means you don't care how you look - imho shorts look fine when it's customary. I said that wearing pants despite shorts being a possibility does show how much you care.

So, as you said, shorts are customary in the US but not in Mexico.... how does that translate into less self-pride in the US? That is just a different custom of dress. Are you arguing that 'self-pride' is measured by how uncomfortable you make yourself? I don't follow the logic.

I'm probably bringing my own US biases in, but I think objectively that more comfortable => less pride in appearance. Not less pride overall just pride in appearance.

(You're not a bad person because you only wear cargo shorts! You just don't value your appearance as much as somebody who always wears suits.)

I'd love to learn of (and maybe live in) a culture that thinks elastic-waist sweatpants show a sense of pride rather than somebody who (for the moment) is choosing comfort over appearance.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#287

Post by twostoned »

watwut wrote: post #267
dopeboy wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Mexico last week near Cancun and observed exactly that. I always saw the locals with jeans and a nice shirt. There's no way I could do that in 85F weather.

Oftentimes when you buy local cloth you find out that they are comfortable for the weather. Long light jeans looking pants can protect you from sun and it is not more hot in them then in shorts. I have jeans for winter and jeans for summer and while they look very similar, their warmth is much different.

Yup yup I learned this in Australia. Bloody hot but I found keeping the sun off your skin actually kept me cooler despite wearing more layers. That and the added benefit of reduced UV or whatever else smashes you in the sunshine (I love the outdoors but tend to burn quickly in direct sunlight).

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#288

Post by sithadmin »

schnevets wrote: post #197
freejulian wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these explanations are rather complicated. I think the simplest explanation is the best: people don't have the free money to spend on clothing. This is evidenced by the following facts: 1) Wages have been stagnant 2) Cost of living has been increasing well beyond the stated 2% rate of inflation.

This economic shift also affects the insulated, higher-class Americans by making noticeable changes on culture. In most roles, a nice suit at the office now suggests arrogance or even distrust. Instead, we venerate the "hoodie and t-shirt" CEO.

>In most roles, a nice suit at the office now suggests arrogance or even distrust. Instead, we venerate the "hoodie and t-shirt" CEO.

This is definitely not the case outside of tech, and generally not the case for firms headquartered outside the major US West Coast cities. My line of work exposes me to the senior leadership of major US and global firms across the US in a wide spread of industries (tech, energy, pharma, medicine, industrial suppliers, consumer goods, automotive), and there is an almost universal expectation that middle managers and above will be dressed in business casual attire, with one's clothing becoming increasingly formal the closer one is to the top of the management pecking order.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#289

Post by ebiester »

meagher wrote: post #74

i’d rather buy a small number of high quality, versatile items i love, than buy lots of cheap stuff i don’t really like to wear. this plus being able to wear whatever i want to work makes my decisions simpler so i can spend time on other things.

So, I think about this but it just doesn't make sense.

1. Most people outside the bay need seasonal clothing. Winter is different than summer.

2. Unless you're running your washer half full, you'll need more than 10 shirts.

3. Then there's occasional wear.

At this point, you're looking at a reasonably full closet, no?

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#290

Post by potta_coffee »

ryanianian wrote: post #257
maerF0x0 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "self pride" its a bucking of the trend of what "looks good" . It's not that I cannot afford to wear suits. Its that I dont like suits. Add in the marginal cost difference and I'd rather wear a tshirt. It's the market punishing the inefficiency of requiring your workers (or date) to dress in a certain manner when it adds no true value.

> It's not that I cannot afford to wear suits. Its that I dont like suits. I think you prove my point (and it's not a bad thing!) Sociology is interesting. A suit is traditionally a sign of "I invest in my clothes and therefore I have self-pride." (It's also a sign that you don't have to do hard/dirty labor.) It seems culturally America has decided that this is out-dated and are choosing to focus less on clothes as a…

My view of suits has always been, "I work in a profession that requires me to wear this symbolic clothing."

I've avoided these kinds of careers because I want to be graded on my skill, not my ability to dress well. And suits are uncomfortable, and I like to be comfortable.

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