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How Will I Measure My Life?

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Re: How Will I Measure My Life?

#51

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #45
wu-ikkyu wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then if we will always fall short of omniscience, why should we always seek it in everything we do?

Because it doesn't matter that you can't walk a hundred million light years, if your goal is 5 meters away from you.

Except our goal here is how to measure the worth of your own life. That's a lot more like "a hundred million light years" than it is "5 meters away." We've literally been trying for millennia to evaluate what 'the good life' is and are probably not that much closer than when we started.

Re: How Will I Measure My Life?

#52

Post by wu-ikkyu »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #45
wu-ikkyu wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then if we will always fall short of omniscience, why should we always seek it in everything we do?

Because it doesn't matter that you can't walk a hundred million light years, if your goal is 5 meters away from you.

So why train for a hundred million light year race when you're already standing in front of the finish line?

Why try to find an objective scientific/monetary measurement of the value of a subjective experience like the warmth of a lovers embrace when you can feel it directly and immediately?

Re: How Will I Measure My Life?

#53

Post by TeMPOraL »

mpweiher wrote: post #48
TeMPOraL wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are definitely measurable (by virtue of being a part of a physical process happening in the real world), we just haven't figured out a proper framework for them yet. Eventually, hopefully, we will.

> They are definitely measurable No, not "definitely". You are assuming they are because "reasons". However, we have no idea whether those "reasons" apply, or whether they mean something is measurable. You may have an argument that they should be measurable, but that's a far cry from "they are definitely". A little humility is a Good Thing™

It's not about humility. The only way for them to be not measurable in principle is if they were running out-of-band on a supernatural plane, magically inaccessible and yet affecting the real world. Because unless you assume magic, everything that affects the real world in any way is observable and thus measurable, by definition.

We have no good evidence so far to believe in magic.

Re: How Will I Measure My Life?

#54

Post by wu-ikkyu »

mmirate wrote: post #40
wu-ikkyu wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the only way of evaluating a noneducational experience is via opportunity costs. What about human feelings (e.g. mental/physical health)? Are those important in evaluating experiences? >(The adjective "monetary" is redundant when discussing evaluations and costs.) The definition of opportunity cost does not mandate that the "cost" is monetary.

> What about human feelings (e.g. mental/physical health)? Are those important in evaluating experiences? If, and only if, they have a monetary effect. For example a professional foot-racer becoming more healthy by X amount means the expected value of him/her running a race increases by some $Y amount (due to higher probability of winning a [higher] prize). > The definition of opportunity cost does not mandate that t…

What is the monetary effect of a beautiful sunset and the warmth of a lover's embrace?

Re: How Will I Measure My Life?

#55

Post by mmirate »

wu-ikkyu wrote: post #54
mmirate wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What about human feelings (e.g. mental/physical health)? Are those important in evaluating experiences? If, and only if, they have a monetary effect. For example a professional foot-racer becoming more healthy by X amount means the expected value of him/her running a race increases by some $Y amount (due to higher probability of winning a [higher] prize). > The definition of opportunity cost does not mandate that t…

What is the monetary effect of a beautiful sunset and the warmth of a lover's embrace?

Generally, both zero. Some exceptions:

To someone suffering depression or similar mental troubles, both may be worth potentially the entirety of possible future lifetime earnings, potentially zero ... or potentially some trivial amount in between due to, say, reduced frequency of making mistakes.

What is the extent that (a) you value passing your assets to a child/descendant upon death, (b) you don't have a (living) child, and (c) you expect to have a legitimate child with that lover in the future? That is precisely the extent to which the warmth of a lover's embrace is valuable to you.

But I expect that item "(a)" is zero for most people, including myself, so generally the value is still zero.

(I consider death to be an ultimate loss of everything, no matter what kind of other-person, descendant or otherwise, ends up in possession of what I owned whilst I lived. ... Of course, if one's balance sheet were negative and one had no expectation of being able to remedy that situation, then death would not seem so bad...)

Re: How Will I Measure My Life?

#56

Post by lcall »

I believe the purpose of life is joy. It comes from growth (ie learning, developing abilities, raising a happy family etc), and service to others (helping them grow or have happier lives), and from knowing one's life is pleasing to God (which can be personally known, it's not all that complicated nor needs to be argumentative). The things you'd want someone to talk about at your funeral. This belief is connected to a strong belief that life has a background, a purpose, is eternal, and growth can also be eternal (I'm a Mormon). I think much about maturity models for the various aspects of life, and how to use/share them. I have written some things about that (more to be added later I hope, just haven't got to posting it), somewhere buried under the features descriptions at http://onemodel.org . This life is hard, but very good, and the best is yet to come.

Re: How Will I Measure My Life?

#57

Post by wu-ikkyu »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #34
hyencomper wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would still be quantifying values against the tangible axes of time and/or money. There are still various other intangible factors such as happiness, goodwill etc which are immeasurable, yet contribute to the overall picture.

They are definitely measurable (by virtue of being a part of a physical process happening in the real world), we just haven't figured out a proper framework for them yet. Eventually, hopefully, we will.

>They are definitely measurable (by virtue of being a part of a physical process happening in the real world)

Everything is definitely measureable? How did you solve the Measurement Problem? It seems to have all the other quantum physicists stumped.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_problem

The problem with saying "everything in reality is physical/material", is that we don't even know what that is on a quantum level.

Re: How Will I Measure My Life?

#58

Post by eow328yhehj »

lcall wrote: post #56

I believe the purpose of life is joy. It comes from growth (ie learning, developing abilities, raising a happy family etc), and service to others (helping them grow or have happier lives), and from knowing one's life is pleasing to God (which can be personally known, it's not all that complicated nor needs to be argumentative). The things you'd want someone to talk about at your funeral. This belief is connected to a…

I believe it's about something far different. From two perspectives; one that discuses why humans exist at all and the other from my own perspective as an individual consciousness.

Humanities existence provides no inherent meaning. That we exist is a result of physical laws of nature.

From the perspective of an individual consciousness, my goal is not joy, but contentment which I'd describe as something like "reducing existential dread."

I think humans have invented a number of ways of achieving that; religions, philosophy, technology. Some are more valuable to all than others, but no one should be behooved their personal spin on things outside the achieving of utilitarian good for the masses so they can partake in the investigation of those personal things with a clear head and as able a body as possible.

I dunno why I'm so certain of this; I think it's due to two car accidents, and an emergency surgery leading me to "black out" and lose time. I'm fairly certain it all just goes dark in the end.

Re: How Will I Measure My Life?

#60

Post by wu-ikkyu »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #30
sgentle wrote: post #23

"many of the things that make life worth living aren’t measurable at all, or if they are measurable then they aren’t comparable. How many dinners with family equal one random act of kindness?" I think there is a dangerous mysticism in this idea of the immeasurable, incomparable, and unfalsifiable value judgement. It may be difficult to reason about the value of family dinners or acts of kindness, and more difficult s…

>I think there is a dangerous mysticism in this idea of the immeasurable, incomparable, and unfalsifiable value judgement. In what sense is it dangerous and in what sense is it mysticism? It's actually kind of an interesting philosophical question, I linked to some background reading at the end of this post. >Saying "my values are so complex that they cannot be reasoned about" is anti-intellectualism dressed up as pr…

>>I think there is a dangerous mysticism in this idea of the immeasurable, incomparable, and unfalsifiable value judgement.

>In what sense is it dangerous and in what sense is it mysticism?

Mysticism is dangerous because it challenges the status quo ideal of extreme materialism; that your worth as a human being is defined by the size of your bank account.

E.g. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal"

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