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What Teenagers Are Learning from Online Porn

nytimes.com

61–70 of 148 posts

Re: What Teenagers Are Learning from Online Porn

#61
Most of this resonates. Just as the article points out, porn is one of the most accessible ways of getting mostly servicable, if greatly skewed sex education, in the sense of being able to consume it from the privacy of your own home, away from adults and peers, and be exposed to a variety of actual situations that depict sex acts. This makes abstract lessons about condoms and bananas -- but maybe not periods and pregnancy -- more concrete, especially as you're at the age when you're trying to figure out what you want emotionally. And that's even if you got a school lesson about condoms and bananas at all.

As for just how skewed porn is, and how much it influences tastes and posturing of its impressionable consumers, is something worthy of more study. While one must be careful to suggest that adult human societies are still shaped by primitive patterns descendant from ancient, hypercompetitive eras lest we erase many years of social progress, societies of adolescents -- especially captive environments like school, camp, and social networks -- show less nuance, and more base urges that are products of either nature or nurture.

Notably, school is a captive social environment in which social competition can develop, and the proliferation of social networks extends this captive environment outside of school hours and into the middle of the night. The youth experience largely consists of top-down busywork about school-selected abstract topics vaguely about adult life, while being exposed to a shifting social landscape in which real events happen with real impact on their immediate surroundings. Sex is one such event, and everyone's still figuring things out.

When you're not actually sure what you want, because lots of things appeal in theory, but you're not sure if that appeal will translate into practice, a confident partner is compelling in ways that go beyond their gratifying presence in porn. They can be your guide and encourage you to engage in the things you want to do, while easing around the ones you don't. Older, attractive, sociable people, who often have more sexual experience (by virtue of their attributes) can project this confidence and match younger partners, despite in many places laws against the contrary. If the relationship remains mutually beneficial, the resulting experiences will allow the bottom partner to gain confidence of their own to apply with future partners, and enables them to explore their preferences.

Meanwhile, adolescents seeking close-in-age partners are faced with a conundrum: project confidence, or admit that they're unsure? The latter, for many, is untenable. A tactic that has developed to project carefree nonchalance instead, to mask deeper conflicts with plausible deniability and a dose of youth-transcending nihilism. This has made "chill" a socially acceptable byword for winging it. This is the territory of mindgames, of unspoken consent (or lack thereof), and a lowkey desire to impress the other -- behaviors that many will retain into adulthood and create more problems then.

It's imperfect choices all around: either have real experience from prior encounters to project confidence, lean on porn and hearsay muster up artificial know-how, engage in a vague slow-motion game where one effectively becomes a recipient to a series of events and one-thing-led-to-anothers, or admit all of this is making your head swirl but watch as the person you like makes headway with someone who was sure a few weeks later?

It always boils down to information and communication. Porn is information where alternatives are not nearly as illustrative, and it enables a vocabulary of communication in a world where talk with adults is a both-ways taboo, talk with peers is a social risk, so most communication isn't verbal. Porn enables vernacular literacy in these matters, while other instruments don't. Of course, it's produced for a different audience, but porn and other artifacts of intimacy produced for (and by) a more relatable audience is illegal, so it's the next best thing.

Re: What Teenagers Are Learning from Online Porn

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think you need to prevent your son from watching porn, especially to the point that you need to completely remove his access to the Internet?

Once he started doing it, everything in his life declined. He stopped having healthy relationships with his siblings and his friends at school. He started to be much more angry and even sometimes violent, and when we examine the situations in detail, we see that none of it is justified, and he's always the one saying everyone is out to get him when he is actually the one doing wrong. He's become a lot more arrogant a…

[deleted]

Re: What Teenagers Are Learning from Online Porn

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think you need to prevent your son from watching porn, especially to the point that you need to completely remove his access to the Internet?

Most of the time, I see the puritanical christians going the route of "sex is evil". It's the unsaid thing as well, but they are also the ones pushing for "abstinence-only training". This is literally dumbing down discourse to students at an age who sorely needs it. I'd also be willing to bet that this family has no compunctions about letting the son watch extreme violent TV shows and movies. People being tortured, m…

The puritanical attitude is wrong. Sex is an amazing and great part of life, just like roller coasters or having 3 beers. Life is meant to be enjoyed. But over-doing it, or using something in a way it wasn't meant to be used, can ruin that joy. Nothing is wrong with sex within a healthy relationship. But nobody who goes to a hooker really believes afterwards that they found true happiness there.

We also avoid movies like Saw not only for our older children but even ourselves. Why fill out bellies with filthy water when there's plenty of fresh water all around us, free for the taking? Only people who convince themselves that there's no fresh water, or that it's not good enough for their belly, will look for filthy polluted water and convince themselves it's their only hope.

Re: What Teenagers Are Learning from Online Porn

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once he started doing it, everything in his life declined. He stopped having healthy relationships with his siblings and his friends at school. He started to be much more angry and even sometimes violent, and when we examine the situations in detail, we see that none of it is justified, and he's always the one saying everyone is out to get him when he is actually the one doing wrong. He's become a lot more arrogant a…

It's possible you're mixing up cause and effect here. The hormonal changes that tend to cause kids to become interested in porn can cause those other elements as well. It's not unusual for even a teenager with no interest in porn to be quick to anger, feel persecuted, be arrogant, etc. "Won't participate in things that he doesn't personally see any value or benefit in" probably describes 98% of high school students.

Teenage boys get more angry and introverted at the same time that they become interested in porn? It must be the porn I tell you!!

Re: What Teenagers Are Learning from Online Porn

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Censorship" here is a big scary word for very basic common sense parenting: recognizing that kids of different ages, personalities, and emotional maturity are not ready to be exposed to some things. I agree with your assessment that parents should talk to their kids more about difficult topics at all ages, in an age-appropriate way, of course. But you can take this too far and end up with the idea that parents shoul…

But why is that too far to assume a child can be exposed to the same things as an adult, ask the same questions, etc? There's this concept that if a child is exposed to something too early it will corrupt their morality or sensibilities and I just don't see it.

Well I'm not sure about corrupting their morality or sensibilities, but strong violence or scary movies can certainly affect a small child more than an adult. My son would have nightmares for days after seeing something too scary for him. Plus some things you can't explain properly to a small child because they don't have the capacity to understand at that point (ex: unusual types of sex acts).

Re: What Teenagers Are Learning from Online Porn

#66

Thank you for posting this. This is a topic that I've long been fascinated by but never knew anything about. I'm way in the older end of the bell curve of age distribution of Hacker News readers, so I've personally experienced how pornography has evolved over the past thirty (or so) years, i.e., ever since I became curious about sex and turned on by naked women. And without a doubt the "hardness" and easy availabilit…

Is there “no escaping” that conclusion? Maybe it’s wrong for the same reason that “violent movies make kids violent” theory was wrong: people know how to distinguish reality from fantasy/entertainment.

Re: What Teenagers Are Learning from Online Porn

#67
post #24

My mother is a retired police officer who sometimes worked on homicide investigations. She once pointed out to me that the way police work is portrayed on TV series is very different from what police officers do when investigating a homicide. And with good reason: If TV showed an accurate version of how murders are solved (or often enough not), it would be really, really boring to watch. On the other hand a real-life…

Yes, and I think that is the most important point about porn: it has very little to do with actual sex, it's not even supposed to be realistic.

The best way I've seen that explained is car chases in movies. They are made to look exciting, but they are also very obviously unrealistic.

Once you understand this, you can look at porn as an entertainment product and nothing more, which I think is the healthy way to approach it.

Re: What Teenagers Are Learning from Online Porn

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think you need to prevent your son from watching porn, especially to the point that you need to completely remove his access to the Internet?

Once he started doing it, everything in his life declined. He stopped having healthy relationships with his siblings and his friends at school. He started to be much more angry and even sometimes violent, and when we examine the situations in detail, we see that none of it is justified, and he's always the one saying everyone is out to get him when he is actually the one doing wrong. He's become a lot more arrogant a…

Sounds more like he's becoming a teenager.

Re: What Teenagers Are Learning from Online Porn

#69
post #27

> Fewer teenagers have early sex than in the past (in a recent study, 24 percent of American ninth graders had sex; in 1995 about 37 percent had), and arrests of teenagers for sexual assault are also down. But you don’t have to believe that porn leads to sexual assault or that it’s creating a generation of brutal men to wonder how it helps shape how teenagers talk and think about sex and, by extension, their ideas ab…

>I am tired of seeing issues framed this way: "Despite all objective evidence, my ideology drives the view that it must be making men brutal and compromising women's power" The paragraph you quoted is literally saying "although evidence suggests porn does not increase assault, no matter what you believe about it it helps shape the views of people who watch it on sex and gender" which is the most obvious, tepid, nonco…

In general intuition is a tool that can be used to help uncover things, but should not be used as a basis for a view by itself. You might be inclined to call the following the most "obvious, tepid, noncontroversial statement" "It's self evident that you shouldn't expose people with bacterial infections to something that comes from the blue green mold that emerges on rot." Of course as you might know, I actually just described penicillin. Our tendency to think our knee jerk intuition is something that can stand alongside data is undoubtedly a big part of what caused it to take years for penicillin to come to be accepted, even after the results were published and shared.

Re: What Teenagers Are Learning from Online Porn

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Pornography kills love. Can you expound on this further? What exactly does it mean and what evidence is there to support it?

Love is the wanting good for another person even if it costs you personally. Porn teaches you to want pleasure for yourself, even if it costs someone else. That's not love, that's lust. The chemicals released in your body and especially brain during orgasm build a closer connection and bond within you to the concepts and people you focused on during it. Pornography trains you to be selfish. Whereas having sex and bot…

I'm not sure that not having porn avoids wanting pleasure for yourself. Isn't that what leads to rape, cheating and various other destructive behaviors?

Conversely, consuming porn, even when it substitutes sex with a romantic partner, doesn't preclude having a loving relationship. As you point out, lust and love are different things. Although they are closely linked for most people, that is not the case e.g. for asexuals.

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