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In Baltimore, Brazen Officers Took Every Chance to Rob and Cheat

nytimes.com

131–140 of 222 posts

Re: In Baltimore, Brazen Officers Took Every Chance to Rob and Cheat

#131
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to think what happens in small cities and towns where this stuff is even harder to report. I'm not sure. I'm more familiar with the small town side of society, and I'd guess that it's much easier to hide this sort of behavior in a larger city. There's much less anonymity in a small town, and keeping this sort of behavior going would require "buy in" from the entire police force rather than just a nucleus of co…

A larger town / city has organized groups of lawyers who primarily exist to defend you from police abuses. To take Baltimore as an example: https://civilrights.baltimorecity.gov/civilian-review-board There is the civilian review board, paid for by city taxes, who do nothing but review cases of police abuse and take said officers to court. That's how stories like the parent story become widely known. So the question i…

So the question is: would you rather live in Baltimore, where these things are reported AND there are powers that can help you with these problems... or would you rather be in Small Town America where the Sheriff is the de-facto ruler and you ain't got nuthing against him?

Personally, I much prefer my chances in small town America. I'm currently living in the Bay Area, but planning to move to somewhere much smaller. I may be naive, but I have much less fear of systematic corruption of the authorities in smaller towns. Alternatively, as a white male, I may be correct in my personal assessment despite the non-universality of the answer.

I'm not sure how one would go about definitively answering the question of whether the unreported cases of abuse in small towns are more prevalent than the reported plus unreported abuses in the larger cities. But I don't think it should involve "correcting" for the on-the-job differences between rural and city officers. Even if the brain drain and low morale help to explain why the remaining officers are more likely to be abusive, as a citizen I'd still probably be wise avoid those places and prefer locations with more content officers.

Re: In Baltimore, Brazen Officers Took Every Chance to Rob and Cheat

#132
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as they are not calling out the cops doing wrong, there are no good cops.

I don't care if they don't call out their coworkers as long as they don't help cover their bad behavior. "If you're not one of us you're one of them" is exactly the kind of cop logic that got us here.

That's not a similar situation in the least. Comparing calling out and calling for the removal of bad cops to holding the thin blue line ignores any bit of context there is.

Re: In Baltimore, Brazen Officers Took Every Chance to Rob and Cheat

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a vast gulf between 'plainclothes detectives' and 'secret police'.

Contradiction by mere statement. Explain why you would want to at a minimum intentionally create ambiguity as to whether one is a police officer, one's name, and what organization one works for - keeping them a "secret", if you will.

If you add a comment really late in a thread then it usually pays off to first read the other replies.

Re: In Baltimore, Brazen Officers Took Every Chance to Rob and Cheat

#135
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Hard to believe actions like that were taking place in the U.S. Is it? I'm a Canadian and everything I hear about the US police terrifies me - SWATing leading to innocent people being killed, unarmed black men being shot, no-knock warrants, civil forfeiture, the impossibility of convicting police for just about anything. If the worst thing they were doing was selling drugs that'd be an improvement as far as I can t…

Has anyone been charged with the false report of the scissors hijab attack?

Not sure. Why do you bring it up in this context?

Re: In Baltimore, Brazen Officers Took Every Chance to Rob and Cheat

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to charge children for lying, everyone would have a thick binder full of criminal records by the age of 12. Maybe, of we want to blame anyone, it should be the media for but doing their due diligence before publishing a price of news.

I think there’s a difference between lying to your mom about cleaning your room and filing a false police report.

I imagine it was a small lie that got out of hand. She did not mastermind a media storm. She told a lie to her school or her parents, they went to police, police talked to media, media interviewed the family, etc. At some point, if she were an adult, she would have understood that the lie had gotten out of hand and would have put an end to it. She was probably so afraid of "getting in trouble" that she didn't dare admit she lied in the first place.

When I was in kindergarten, I once lied about seeing a snake in the schoolyard. I don't remember why or how, I just told a stupid lie like every stupid kid (which is the same thing as every kid) does all the time. Now, no one believed me and I don't think that anyone else in the world remembers what I said, but imagine if they did. Imagine the grown-ups had taken it seriously and called 911 (well, 125 realistically , it wasn't in North America). The city would have started a large investigation to find the missing killer snake, the media would have printed article after article reporting on how people should be scared of sending their kids to school when there are dangerous animals on the loose and no one does anything about it, recess would have been cancelled, ... Imagine a shark scare, but on a larger scale. Every now and then, some grown-up would have asked me if I was sure I saw a snake, and due to the aforementioned stupidity, plus the fact that I was afraid of getting in trouble, I would have nodded yes. It would have been The News until something else distracted people from it.

None of this happened because no one believed me in the first place. But if it had happened, should I have been held criminally responsible for all the trouble?

That's my point. Kids lie all the time for all sorts of reasons. If you want to start holding them responsible through criminal justice system, you would have to send every one of them to jail.

Re: In Baltimore, Brazen Officers Took Every Chance to Rob and Cheat

#137
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Hard to believe actions like that were taking place in the U.S. Is it? I'm a Canadian and everything I hear about the US police terrifies me - SWATing leading to innocent people being killed, unarmed black men being shot, no-knock warrants, civil forfeiture, the impossibility of convicting police for just about anything. If the worst thing they were doing was selling drugs that'd be an improvement as far as I can t…

Don't judge all the the US by its corrupt big cities. I recognize nothing in this story in my town's local police (we're about 65,000 population, and the cops are quite relaxed and civil as a default).

> Don't judge all the the US by its corrupt big cities.

> I recognize nothing in this story in my town's local police (we're about 65,000 population, and the cops are quite relaxed and civil as a default).

I was stopped without explanation in Andover, KS (population In a neighboring city (Wichita), police responding to a 911 call that I placed after being robbed at gunpoint played good-cop-bad-cop with me. They suspected that my roommate and I were selling pot (we weren’t) and refused to press charges on the assailant because they assumed we were withholding information. I tried to call them on it, but I was unsuccessful. They didn’t give a shit about us because of the assumptions they made coming into the situation.

FWIW, I have two friends who are cops. I do not think all cops are bad people. Your dismissal of the issue is problematic.

Re: In Baltimore, Brazen Officers Took Every Chance to Rob and Cheat

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think corruption has much to do with "militarization". It doesn't take a tank to plant evidence and steal money. Also, much of the equipment that people point to as evidence of "militarization" is either generic equipment that has valid police use (e.g. armored trucks. Brinks security, for example, uses them for their secure transport services), or is not military equipment at all. Riot shields, gas masks, an…

It's not about the tanks. Once the cops start thinking of themselves as "warriors" and the rest of us as "civilians," the necessary lines have been drawn in their minds to justify mistreatment of the outside group. One difference between our militarized (and unionized) police forces and the real military is that if you're in the military and you shoot someone who didn't need shooting, you are in very deep shit. The p…

> One difference between our militarized (and unionized) police forces and the real military is that if you're in the military and you shoot someone who didn't need shooting, you are in very deep shit.

Only if the wrong people find out. Just like with the cops.

https://collateralmurder.wikileaks.org/

Re: In Baltimore, Brazen Officers Took Every Chance to Rob and Cheat

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ummm...I don't know if 'vast' is what I would use there, but there's a difference.

The difference is that a secret police is used by a dictatorship to keep the dictator in power by systematically attacking the opposition and any grass roots movements. Plainclothes detectives are simply police that are not in uniform ('undercover'), they are still part of the regular police force.

I mean, there's stuff like this https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/12/undercover-o...

I see a difference between the Stasi and the US police currently, but its not like the US police don't exhibit many of the same behaviors. In a related article referencing the same group of police here, https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/14/us/baltimore-police-depar...

That description of jump-out squads, where you never know when some random guy on the street is gonna detain you and arrest/beat/steal from you sounds a lot like the descriptions of secret police in other countries. There was also that black site in chicago where the police disappeared people

I also don't think a dictatorship is a necessary component for calling some group a secret police. An oligarchy and even a representative democracy can do that just as well. Its not like we don't already have secret courts. The apparatus exists for this already

Re: In Baltimore, Brazen Officers Took Every Chance to Rob and Cheat

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this assertion made about police thinking of themselves as "warriors" but I have yet to see this substantiated by evidence. It doesn't correspond to the rate of people killed by police (that rate essentially mirrors the overall rate of street crime). I am even more dubious of the second claim you make. A US citizen has vastly better ability to attempt to exact justice for their own police force's actions than s…

It doesn't correspond to the rate of people killed by police (that rate essentially mirrors the overall rate of street crime). That's not an accurate characterization. Suggested reading: https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Ameri... I am even more dubious of the second claim you make. A US citizen has vastly better ability to attempt to exact justice for their own police force's actions than someone…

Are you aware of Mai Lai massacre? That’s one we have been told about because there was no hiding it once congress got involved. There should be many others where nobody broke the ranks.

[1] trigger warning: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

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