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As Bitcoin Bubble Loses Air, Frauds and Flaws Rise to Surface

nytimes.com

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Re: As Bitcoin Bubble Loses Air, Frauds and Flaws Rise to Surface

#11

Post by bb88 »

agorabinary wrote: post #7

Surely a lot of frauds but where are the flaws? Instead we have: - Open source flexibility: Hundreds of competing coins seeking to optimize upon an original design - A decentralized payment system: Beyond the reach of currency-manipulating state actors - Programmable money: The key ingredient for trustless and automated next-gen services and products - Working as designed: 9 years strong - And soon: Scalability to gl…

> Working as designed: 9 years strong

and

> And soon: Scalability to global volumes

Wait, what? It's working as designed but can't scale to the "global volumes"? Isn't that a bug?

Re: As Bitcoin Bubble Loses Air, Frauds and Flaws Rise to Surface

#12

Post by CodeWriter23 »

agorabinary wrote: post #9
IntronExon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smash cut to a barren wasteland with no one and nothing left. Maybe cryptocurrency has a bright future, but I’m skeptical that any of the extent ones fit that bill. PoW is obscene, Lightning impractical, and it may just be that the whole thing is fatally flawed.

How is Lightning impractical? I encourage you to try it out on testnet right now, it works great. It also solves your PoW concerns.

> How is Lightning impractical?

Like any crypto currency, the numbers in computers are worth whatever people believe they’re worth. So when enough people believe said numbers are worth zero, then the currency will be worth 0. Some may say the same is true for fiat, however the difference with fiat is most national currencies are backed by the might of military force to convince or coerce people into believing the value is > 0.

Re: As Bitcoin Bubble Loses Air, Frauds and Flaws Rise to Surface

#13

Post by slededit »

bb88 wrote: post #11
agorabinary wrote: post #7

Surely a lot of frauds but where are the flaws? Instead we have: - Open source flexibility: Hundreds of competing coins seeking to optimize upon an original design - A decentralized payment system: Beyond the reach of currency-manipulating state actors - Programmable money: The key ingredient for trustless and automated next-gen services and products - Working as designed: 9 years strong - And soon: Scalability to gl…

> Working as designed: 9 years strong and > And soon: Scalability to global volumes Wait, what? It's working as designed but can't scale to the "global volumes"? Isn't that a bug?

It was never designed to scale that large. The theoretical limits to transactions were known at creation time it wasn't much of a surprise. Nobody expects to solve every problem on a 1.0 release.

Re: As Bitcoin Bubble Loses Air, Frauds and Flaws Rise to Surface

#14

Post by hndamien »

slededit wrote: post #13
bb88 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Working as designed: 9 years strong and > And soon: Scalability to global volumes Wait, what? It's working as designed but can't scale to the "global volumes"? Isn't that a bug?

It was never designed to scale that large. The theoretical limits to transactions were known at creation time it wasn't much of a surprise. Nobody expects to solve every problem on a 1.0 release.

It wasn't even a 1.0 release.

Re: As Bitcoin Bubble Loses Air, Frauds and Flaws Rise to Surface

#15

Post by carlosthedwarf »

agorabinary wrote: post #7

Surely a lot of frauds but where are the flaws? Instead we have: - Open source flexibility: Hundreds of competing coins seeking to optimize upon an original design - A decentralized payment system: Beyond the reach of currency-manipulating state actors - Programmable money: The key ingredient for trustless and automated next-gen services and products - Working as designed: 9 years strong - And soon: Scalability to gl…

> A decentralized payment system

and

> Working as designed: 9 years strong

Is it really working as designed if very little people are finding actual utility in what it is supposed to be - a decentralized payment system..

Re: As Bitcoin Bubble Loses Air, Frauds and Flaws Rise to Surface

#16

Post by 0wing »

agorabinary wrote: post #9
IntronExon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smash cut to a barren wasteland with no one and nothing left. Maybe cryptocurrency has a bright future, but I’m skeptical that any of the extent ones fit that bill. PoW is obscene, Lightning impractical, and it may just be that the whole thing is fatally flawed.

How is Lightning impractical? I encourage you to try it out on testnet right now, it works great. It also solves your PoW concerns.

https://medium.com/@jonaldfyookball/mathematical-proof-that-...

http://www.coppolacomment.com/2018/01/probability-for-geeks....

http://www.coppolacomment.com/2018/01/lightning-and-fat-cont...

Re: As Bitcoin Bubble Loses Air, Frauds and Flaws Rise to Surface

#17

Post by cocothem »

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #12
agorabinary wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Lightning impractical? I encourage you to try it out on testnet right now, it works great. It also solves your PoW concerns.

> How is Lightning impractical? Like any crypto currency, the numbers in computers are worth whatever people believe they’re worth. So when enough people believe said numbers are worth zero, then the currency will be worth 0. Some may say the same is true for fiat, however the difference with fiat is most national currencies are backed by the might of military force to convince or coerce people into believing the val…

One word: Venezuela

Re: As Bitcoin Bubble Loses Air, Frauds and Flaws Rise to Surface

#18

Post by 0wing »

IntronExon wrote: post #10
agorabinary wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Lightning impractical? I encourage you to try it out on testnet right now, it works great. It also solves your PoW concerns.

...By requiring you to keep your computer up 24/7, no?

And keys in memory, which increases the attack surface - especially noteworthy with the intel bugs.

Re: As Bitcoin Bubble Loses Air, Frauds and Flaws Rise to Surface

#19

Post by dpc_pw »

IntronExon wrote: post #10
agorabinary wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Lightning impractical? I encourage you to try it out on testnet right now, it works great. It also solves your PoW concerns.

...By requiring you to keep your computer up 24/7, no?

Not really true. You can offload monitoring blockchain to "watchers" (privately), and if you have a pay-only wallet you don't have to watch for anything anyway.

On top of that LN is very practical for heaviest blockchain users, that do run full node 24/7 anyway.

Re: As Bitcoin Bubble Loses Air, Frauds and Flaws Rise to Surface

#20

Post by agorabinary »

0wing wrote: post #16
agorabinary wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Lightning impractical? I encourage you to try it out on testnet right now, it works great. It also solves your PoW concerns.

https://medium.com/@jonaldfyookball/mathematical-proof-that-... http://www.coppolacomment.com/2018/01/probability-for-geeks.... http://www.coppolacomment.com/2018/01/lightning-and-fat-cont...

Your first link has refuting or critical comments from such notables as Vitalik Buterin and Brahm Cohen. In case anyone wanted a tl;dr to actually reading and evaluating that 15 minute logical fallacy of a read. And the other ones just reference the first link.
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