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3D Color Print

www8.hp.com

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Re: 3D Color Print

#101

Post by crwalker »

noen wrote: post #54
leoedin wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you work for Jabil or are you just using that article as an example? How do you find the mechanical properties of the parts? Do they vary print to print? Do they suffer from the same problems that cheaper 3D printed parts do - principally either very low strength across the layers (for FDM prints) or very soft materials (cured epoxy and most of the SLS prints I've dealt with).

Not affiliated with Nabil or HP, but I have done a fair bit of research on the tech for this printer line. It is pretty fundamentally different to FDM or SLA. Closest to SLS, but still not really the same. Mechanically it should be very similar to SLS, but uses a deposition style more like SLA. So in theory it should besomewhere in between. The material I've read and demo material prints I've seen so far back that up…

MJF is used for production parts today.

Re: 3D Color Print

#103

Post by goblin89 »

gene-h wrote: post #45
darkstar999 wrote: post #6

Can you imagine how much they would charge for the "ink" on these things?

And because it's HP they're also doing other nasty stuff too. You know how most 2d printers put invisible tracking dots in their prints to prevent counterfeiting? Well HP's 3d printers are going to do the same for 'security', anti-counterfeiting, and DRM purposes. They can print whatever pattern of color they want inside the part, so that one can scratch off the surface layer and determine who ran off illegal copies…

Is there a solution that doesn’t involve DRM—meaning at least some way to restrict on which devices given model may be printed—yet can enable marketplaces on which independent inventors who specialize in creating 3D-printable items could confidently publish their work and reliably get paid without worrying about theft?

Re: 3D Color Print

#104

Post by sokoloff »

Aloha wrote: post #90
sschueller wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drivers that you may also need to pay for when upgrading your OS even though they only work with an HP device that you also paid a lot of money for.

Citation?

I can't readily find a citation online, but my personal experience with both my parents and grandparents' computer was that there was no free Windows 7 driver but was a for-purchase Windows 7 printer driver for the HP printers they had.

There was a workaround, which was to massage the Vista drivers to get them to install on Win7. Sorry if the details are fuzzy; it's been several years.

I'm not overly anti-HP, but this did leave a very bad taste in my mouth for the company. I still print on an HP3600 at home and think it's a great home printer; would buy again.

Re: 3D Color Print

#105

Post by Lxr »

alexbeloi wrote: post #82
pacificmint wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to imply that they don't realize something might have impact in the future (because it's not what they measure). It's also possible that they are very aware of it, but just don't care. The modern corporate system, especially in the US, is set up to incentivize favoring short term results over the long term. If it will make their numbers look better this quarter at the cost of damaging the brand down the road…

The corporation is run by people and people favor short term results when they expect to be in their position for a short period. Just as it's far less common for the regular working (wo)man to stay at the same company for decades, it's less common for CEOs to do so as well.[0] If a CEO/president expects (through loyalty/control of the board, or otherwise) to be at the company for a long time, they will naturally mak…

I believe this is why companies often go downhill after the original founders leave and “professional management” takes over - founders generally take a less short-sighted view.

Re: 3D Color Print

#106

Post by milansuk »

gh02t wrote: post #72
dolguldur wrote: post #63

It's funny how I and other people see hp and immediately think of bad business practices that lead to a bad experience with the brand. Relates to the concept that you optimize for what you measure. Not factoring in that screwing over customers will have some impact down the line is also like some sort of debt (as in tech debt). It's like long term brand debt.

It's a bit depressing too, considering what the HP brand used to be. They used to be synonymous with the some of the most cutting-edge, best engineered test equipment and other electronics gear you could buy. Gear from that era like the legendary HP3458 multimeter still commands very high prices on the used market ($5000 or more if calibrated). Really that part of HP still exists at that level of quality, but they sp…

"The H.P. Touch Computer (1983)" video[1] is nice proof how HP was great. Interesting part is around 2:30 when they don't pitch new touch screen technology(in 1983), but the way how they applied it.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-THdG5gVTw

Re: 3D Color Print

#107

Post by Cyph0n »

ballenf wrote: post #98
digi_owl wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny thing is that said HP still exist. What people are complaining about is the bottom of the barrel consumer products hawked out of very storefront the world over. I have seen similar sentiments aimed towards Acer, yet i have seen Acer business market laptops survive for ages. Basically companies like HP and Acer have multiple product ranges with different QA protocols and different margins. Yet people keep buying…

There are companies that refuse to dilute their brand or sully their image: - BMW, Lexus - Tiffany's - Rolex Tech companies just think that they are immune to the market forces that keep other high end brands from skimming off the lower rungs (or at least doing it with their marquee brand). The examples are just the first ones from different markets that came to mind.

I don't think any of those companies -- all luxury, high-cost/high-profit, consumer brands -- can be compared to a multinational, high volume, consumer- and business-facing IT company.

Perhaps there are better examples?

Re: 3D Color Print

#108

Post by skate22 »

ballenf wrote: post #98
digi_owl wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny thing is that said HP still exist. What people are complaining about is the bottom of the barrel consumer products hawked out of very storefront the world over. I have seen similar sentiments aimed towards Acer, yet i have seen Acer business market laptops survive for ages. Basically companies like HP and Acer have multiple product ranges with different QA protocols and different margins. Yet people keep buying…

There are companies that refuse to dilute their brand or sully their image: - BMW, Lexus - Tiffany's - Rolex Tech companies just think that they are immune to the market forces that keep other high end brands from skimming off the lower rungs (or at least doing it with their marquee brand). The examples are just the first ones from different markets that came to mind.

I feel like many tech companies have to support a much broader audience with more varient use cases than the companies you listed.

Luxury watches sold by rollex only have to do a few things very well, and look nice. Some major tech companies are constantly under pressure to not only maintain quality of existing features, but to develop new features to stay competitive (all of this on updated hardware).

Im not defending any 'bad' products that major tech companies put out, but i dont think the companies you listed are very comparable.

Re: 3D Color Print

#109

Post by overcast »

Cyph0n wrote: post #107
ballenf wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are companies that refuse to dilute their brand or sully their image: - BMW, Lexus - Tiffany's - Rolex Tech companies just think that they are immune to the market forces that keep other high end brands from skimming off the lower rungs (or at least doing it with their marquee brand). The examples are just the first ones from different markets that came to mind.

I don't think any of those companies -- all luxury, high-cost/high-profit, consumer brands -- can be compared to a multinational, high volume, consumer- and business-facing IT company. Perhaps there are better examples?

Apple.

Re: 3D Color Print

#110

Post by leggomylibro »

borgchick wrote: post #66

While I am sure the HP solution will run circles around this, in both quality and in price, but XYZ Printing has introduced a (low cost) inkjet+FDM 3D printer. Basically it prints a layer with the FDM printer, then prints a layer of color with the inkjet. Now, it seems pretty hard to find any good reviews on Youtube about it. Obviously their marketing material shows it printing fabulous vibrant prints, but the "3D pr…

Ha, if you think filament is expensive NOW, just wait until you have an HP printer!

That said, they do provide some interesting cost values which make it sound like this will probably be in the ballpark of low 6-figures:

>1. Based on internal and third-party testing for HP Jet Fusion 580 and 5403D Printers, printing time is a fraction of the time of the printing times of comparable plastic fused deposition modeling (FDM), stereolithography (SLA), and material jetting solutions from $20,000 USD to $120,000 USD on market as of June, 2017. Testing variables for the HP JetFusion 580 3D Printer: Part quantity: 1 full build chamber of parts from HP Jet Fusion 3D at 10% of packing density versus same number of parts on above-mentioned competitive devices; Part size: 30 cm3; Layer thickness: .08 mm/0.003 inches. Competitor testing variables are comparable.

>2. Based on internal testing and simulation, HP Jet Fusion 3D average printing time is up to 10 times faster than average printing time of comparable fused deposition modeling (FDM) and selective laser sintering (SLS) printer solutions from $100,000 USD to $300,000 USD on market as of April, 2016. Testing variables for the HP Jet Fusion 4210/4200/3200 Printing Solutions: Part quantity: 1 full build chamber of parts from HP Jet Fusion 3D at 20% of packing density versus same number of parts on above-mentioned competitive devices; Part size: 30 grams; Layer thickness: 0.08 mm/0.003 inches.

>3. Based on internal testing and public data, HP Jet Fusion 3D average printing cost per part is half the average cost of comparable FDM & SLS printer solutions from $100,000 USD to $300,000 USD on market as of April, 2016. Cost analysis based on: standard solution configuration price, supplies price, and maintenance costs recommended by manufacturer. Cost criteria: printing 1 build chamber per day/5 days per week over 1 year of 30-gram parts at 10% packing density using HP 3D High Reusability PA 12 material, and the powder reusability ratio recommended by manufacturer. Based on internal testing and public data, HP Jet Fusion 3D 4210 Printing Solution average printing cost-per-part is 65% lower versus the average cost of comparable FDM and SLS printer solutions from $100,000 USD to $300,000 USD on market as of April, 2016 and is 50% lower versus the average cost of comparable SLS printer solutions for $300,000 USD to $450,000 USD. Cost analysis based on: standard solution configuration price, supplies price, and maintenance costs recommended by manufacturer. Cost criteria: printing 1.4 full build chambers of parts per day/5 days per week over 1 year of 30-gram parts at 10% packing density on fast print mode using HP 3D High Reusability PA 12 material, and the powder reusability ratio recommended by manufacturer.

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