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Even in Denmark, children are career killers for working moms

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11–20 of 134 posts

Re: Even in Denmark, children are career killers for working moms

#11
post #9

Generally speaking, equality of choice between the sexes is unequivocally a good thing...but we're going to spend years untangling the muddy notion in many people's minds that equality of outcome is expected when there is perfect equality of opportunity . What actually happens in the Scandinavian countries, where both sexes have the highest levels of equality of opportunity, education, and choice in the world...is th…

Is this equity vs equality, or are you making a deeper argument?

Re: Even in Denmark, children are career killers for working moms

#12
post #7

If you choose to have children then your career is raising children. You have to choose to prioritize one or the other, the idea that you can take large amounts of time off and still be at the same level as people who kept working is insane. There isn't any injustice going on here. Juggling an intense career path with raising children is a bad idea. Sending children to day care for large amounts of their youth has be…

Instinctually, I agree with you on the effects of years of daycare on development...could you point me to one or two of your sources? I hate to be that guy on HN, just looking for some confirmation for my bias here :)

Re: Even in Denmark, children are career killers for working moms

#13
Why is there this underlying theme that Careers are more important than Children?

They are not.

The measure of your life is not how much money you made, it's how many people love you, and actually care that you are alive.

Someone with lots of money how dies alone and unmourned, is not better off than someone with less money, who is surrounded by his descendants.

Re: Even in Denmark, children are career killers for working moms

#14
post #7

If you choose to have children then your career is raising children. You have to choose to prioritize one or the other, the idea that you can take large amounts of time off and still be at the same level as people who kept working is insane. There isn't any injustice going on here. Juggling an intense career path with raising children is a bad idea. Sending children to day care for large amounts of their youth has be…

The entire point, and what the graph clear shows, is that fathers and mothers wage-growth significantly diverges. Both become a parent, but apparently only the mothers pay suffer.

Re: Even in Denmark, children are career killers for working moms

#15

From experience, primary caretakers of children tend to favor less weekly work hours, flexible schedules, ect. All things that doesn't exactly lend itself to a "high-powered career". So the question I'd like answered is not if women should have the same earning as their male part, they should have the same oppotunity. But if they want it at the cost of the flexibility and hours they ask for?

Women on average have less flexible hours and female dominated occupations have less flex time then male dominated occupations.

Otherwise said, nurse, psychologist or teacher must be there at time. Same with service workers, call center and pretty much anyone who works with people in person. Female dominated professions that could work from home or could be flexible are not. Programmers get to choose when they come to work and see it as their God given right.

Re: Even in Denmark, children are career killers for working moms

#16
post #11
post #9

Generally speaking, equality of choice between the sexes is unequivocally a good thing...but we're going to spend years untangling the muddy notion in many people's minds that equality of outcome is expected when there is perfect equality of opportunity . What actually happens in the Scandinavian countries, where both sexes have the highest levels of equality of opportunity, education, and choice in the world...is th…

Is this equity vs equality, or are you making a deeper argument?

Equality. If the usual parlance were "Gender Inequity" then we'd be talking about that instead. But that's used so little that googling "Gender Inequity" actually redirects automatically to "Gender Inequality", so the former can't be very much in use.

Re: Even in Denmark, children are career killers for working moms

#17
post #7

If you choose to have children then your career is raising children. You have to choose to prioritize one or the other, the idea that you can take large amounts of time off and still be at the same level as people who kept working is insane. There isn't any injustice going on here. Juggling an intense career path with raising children is a bad idea. Sending children to day care for large amounts of their youth has be…

That's an opinion I can understand, but it completely misses the point of the article. The article is about the fact that children are a far greater risk for women careers that men's.

Re: Even in Denmark, children are career killers for working moms

#18
post #3

It's not that children are career killers, but rather taking significant amounts of time off is. It's also unclear if harming your career is even a bad thing to begin, considering the options given (e.g. Don't have children, have children but neglect them, have children and take care of them, but have lower income when the caregiver returns to the work force). Perhaps spending proper time with children, even if it is…

There does seem to be a element of: "people who value their careers more than children end up making more money" here, which seems pretty obvious when you think about it.

From a social and corporate perspective we have a choice though: should be allow incentive systems that reward people who value their careers over their children to continue? Or should we change our incentive systems so that people who value children over career earn equal wages or even more?

Which group of people is actually more valuable to society?

Re: Even in Denmark, children are career killers for working moms

#19
post #9

Generally speaking, equality of choice between the sexes is unequivocally a good thing...but we're going to spend years untangling the muddy notion in many people's minds that equality of outcome is expected when there is perfect equality of opportunity . What actually happens in the Scandinavian countries, where both sexes have the highest levels of equality of opportunity, education, and choice in the world...is th…

Or, try saying that at Google.

Re: Even in Denmark, children are career killers for working moms

#20
post #7

If you choose to have children then your career is raising children. You have to choose to prioritize one or the other, the idea that you can take large amounts of time off and still be at the same level as people who kept working is insane. There isn't any injustice going on here. Juggling an intense career path with raising children is a bad idea. Sending children to day care for large amounts of their youth has be…

The entire point, and what the graph clear shows, is that fathers and mothers wage-growth significantly diverges. Both become a parent, but apparently only the mothers pay suffer.

Is that bad? Is pay more important than raising children?

Is the best plan, to make money, then to pay other people to raise your children?

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