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There is no nanotech, stop talking about it and start laughing at it

scottlocklin.wordpress.com

101–110 of 117 posts

Re: There is no nanotech, stop talking about it and start laughing at it

#101
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is now a technology to print DNA from a computer data file and inject it into a cell. That seems to be a good start for tinkering.

Realize that a plasmid (what they are creating and injecting) is usually a loop of ~4000 base pairs while your DNA consists of ~3 billion base pairs. That's not much shell code, especially when we haven't found a shell to run.

They only just invented it. I'm sure it will be improved.

Re: There is no nanotech, stop talking about it and start laughing at it

#102
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is now a technology to print DNA from a computer data file and inject it into a cell. That seems to be a good start for tinkering.

Realize that a plasmid (what they are creating and injecting) is usually a loop of ~4000 base pairs while your DNA consists of ~3 billion base pairs. That's not much shell code, especially when we haven't found a shell to run.

It's interesting to see how fast the basepair counts shoot up for more complex organisms. Worm: 100Mbp, fly: 160Mbp, Mouse: 3 Bbp, Human: 3 Bbp.

Re: There is no nanotech, stop talking about it and start laughing at it

#103
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Evolution took billions of years to engineer the ribosome I see this argument a lot, but it doesn't really hold water. Evolution wasn't trying to engineer the ribosome. In fact, the only thing evolution tries to do is replicate. The biological forms that have come out of that are completely random. Humans, on the other hand, consciously make efforts at engineering. Thousands of monkeys will never (for all practical…

I like this perspective, I prefer optimism over critical pessimism. This stance is really what drives innovation - not being restrained by perceived or even real limitations.

Real limitations will always restrain you, no matter how optimistic you are.

Re: There is no nanotech, stop talking about it and start laughing at it

#104
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evolution took billions of years to engineer the ribosome (and more importantly to engineer the whole supporting ecosystem where ribosome can do what it needs to do). I doubt humans will be able to do that in next 100 years. Granted a similar argument can be made for many other comparisons (such as camera or airplanes) but at nano-scales physics of environment plays a tremendous role. The beauty of evolution was that…

In the billions of years since life began, evolution never took a life form, put it on the moon, and brought it back. I doubt mankind can do it "before this decade is out". Practical nanotech will inevitably harness the forces of life that already exist; why wouldn't it? Saying it's not real Drexlerian nanotech may be true, but it will also be a very uninteresting thing to say. Who cares? What's happening and what's…

Exactly. The author argues as though our view of nanotech hasn't changed in the last 25 years, which is of course not true.

Re: There is no nanotech, stop talking about it and start laughing at it

#106
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why summarize and criticize a book published in 1986?

Not that I necessarily agree with this particular summary in everything, but the point of summarizing something it to make it easier to digest the core of the argument before criticizing it. For that to work you have to have a really good understanding of the subject matter though, and I think he does Drexler great disservice when he says "He seems to lack the imagination, and of course, the physics to figure out wha…

"Of course Drexler didn't have the physics to figure out what a real nanobot might look like, nobody did, and nobody does."

Well then I fail to see how anyone can justify calling this a technology then, when there ain't even any physics to describe it.

Re: There is no nanotech, stop talking about it and start laughing at it

#107
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I necessarily agree with this particular summary in everything, but the point of summarizing something it to make it easier to digest the core of the argument before criticizing it. For that to work you have to have a really good understanding of the subject matter though, and I think he does Drexler great disservice when he says "He seems to lack the imagination, and of course, the physics to figure out wha…

i understand what summary is for. what i don't "understand" is why he chose as the target a book that's 24 years old in a fast moving field. actually i do understand: it was a strawman! i agree with your assessment.

This is a non-moving "field." It is nothing but a marketing word for third rate research on things which used to be called "tribology" and "chemistry."

Re: There is no nanotech, stop talking about it and start laughing at it

#108
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like this perspective, I prefer optimism over critical pessimism. This stance is really what drives innovation - not being restrained by perceived or even real limitations.

Real limitations will always restrain you, no matter how optimistic you are.

Real limitations aren't "real" though, in the sense that some sort of boundary or new knowledge extends the demarcating line between it being a "real" limitation and an "unknown" limitation. A matter of degree I suppose. I'm certainly not going to argue that humans will suddenly begin sprouting wings on their backs, but people at some point in history - I'm sure - claimed human flight to be an impossibility, a gift only birds and gods possessed. That is, until the airplane was created, which extended that "limitation".

Many etiological examples can be drawn, but can you not agree that saying "real limitations will always restrain you" is too absolutist?

Re: There is no nanotech, stop talking about it and start laughing at it

#109
As someone who's done a fair amount of work in materials science and "nanotechnology", I have to admit there are some valid points in here. Drexler-type nanobots are still just as far away as when he wrote his book, and a large amount of the "nanotechnology" work out there is called such mainly to get funding.

But the author here overstates his case quite a bit. "Millitech"? There are many microscale mechanical systems out there, both in the lab and in industrial applications. Accelerometers are one example; the actuated mirrors in DLP projectors are another. If there's no microtechnology out there, I know a lot of MEMS engineers who are going to be surprised to here it.

A lot of what's called nanotech now could have been called physical chemistry thirty years ago, especially a lot of the "let's put nanoparticles in it!" projects out there. But there's some pretty real nanotech out there too, even if it doesn't qualify under the self-replicating nanobots definition. One example I can think of is the work being done on nanoscale printing--not lithography, but actual physical printing of materials into nanoscale patterns. And there's some pretty cool controlled nanoparticle engineering work out there too.

Re: There is no nanotech, stop talking about it and start laughing at it

#110
post #88

Is this guy actually talking about _Nanosystems_? I don't think he read the same book I did. I want my 60 seconds back.

He is speaking about Drexler's PhD Thesis, that was the draft of Nanosystems, and it's freely available:

http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/27999

But I also want my (120) seconds back.

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