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16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

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Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#91

Post by throwaway2016a »

gameswithgo wrote: post #87
throwaway2016a wrote: post #77

I have a related question. Since when is a 16 year old who makes an app a prodigy? Even if she did write it all by herself? I was getting paid to make back office software for local businesses at 13 in 1998 with absolutely no help from anyone and no one called me a prodigy. I'm sure tons of NH people have similar stories. I seem to remember a survey at one point that the average person on HN who actually codes starte…

Obviously the fact that she was a woman made the story more appealing, which would be fine if it was a true story, it is nice for people to have role models they can identify with and be inspired by. Everyone loves an underdog story...well I do. I sometimes find the fact that women are successfully being high profile scam artists (Elizabeth Holmes etc) encouraging in a twisted way. Plenty of men have made a bunch of…

My point is if she did make the app herself it makes sense to hold her up as a role model but holding her up as a "prodigy" is counter productive.

If anything it is a little sexist (not you, the "prodigy" idea). That if a 16 boy makes an app it's just normal but if a girl does it, she is a prodigy.

We need to be teaching people that men and women are equal and that girls can do this stuff just the same as boys. Saying it takes a prodigy to do it discourages people from even trying because it comes with the implication that person is capable of something the average girl isn't.

Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#92

Post by shamdasani »

I'd like to weigh in on this as a 16 year old. By no means am I an experienced programmer [1], but I feel as if I am learning all that I can. Sure, stackoverflow and Google are there to help, but I make sure that I understand whatever I write.

This girl is using her age as a marketing tactic, and I understand the point of the author, but this post goes too far. Instead of pointing out her faults by making a big deal on his blog, the author should reach out to her and explain his opinion in a mature manner. I don't think it is right to expose someone publicly just for making a mistake.

[1]: https://shamdasani.org

Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#93

Post by onion2k »

HenryBemis wrote: post #71
simias wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see where you're coming from but I think the point still stands. Making a fraud the poster child for a cause is worse than having no poster child at all. In general I'm always very wary of "teenage prodigies" stories, they're very marketable but I think they're bad for everybody involved: on one hand the "prodigy" is on exhibit like some kind of circus freak and at this age is probably ill-prepared to deal with the…

Lying is lying irrespective of gender. No way a 16yo kid can design start-to-end an app, learn how to code, learn how to build the UI, etc. Unless by "mentor" (as seen on the dialogue-screesnhot) means "X and Y designed this and that for me so all I did was put my name in the front page).

A decade is more than enough time to become extremely competent. I've know 16 year olds who started learning to code when they were 6. Plenty of developers teach their kids from very young ages. Of course a 16 year old could write a great app.

Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#94

Post by vertex-four »

HenryBemis wrote: post #71
simias wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see where you're coming from but I think the point still stands. Making a fraud the poster child for a cause is worse than having no poster child at all. In general I'm always very wary of "teenage prodigies" stories, they're very marketable but I think they're bad for everybody involved: on one hand the "prodigy" is on exhibit like some kind of circus freak and at this age is probably ill-prepared to deal with the…

Lying is lying irrespective of gender. No way a 16yo kid can design start-to-end an app, learn how to code, learn how to build the UI, etc. Unless by "mentor" (as seen on the dialogue-screesnhot) means "X and Y designed this and that for me so all I did was put my name in the front page).

A 16yo kid who's had multiple years of learning how to program, and a good work ethic, could very well do that - I had published applications at around that age that had users. I don't think a young age is in itself a reason to be suspicious of plagiarism.

Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#95

Post by Kiro »

jjevanoorschot wrote: post #3

"Such kind of people give Women in Code a really, really bad name, because sweetie, it takes tonnes of hardwork, cutting through competition, persistent dealing with sexism and lot of patience to make place for yourself in this male-dominant coveted industry." It's quite ironic that in a sentence about sexism and a male-dominated industry, the author addresses the developer by 'sweetie'.

The author is a woman though. Is a woman calling a girl "sweetie" sexism?

Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#96

Post by onion2k »

petagonoral wrote: post #57
tomaskafka wrote: post #15

> But after reading her blogpost, her stackoverflow/github history in an attempt to understand her struggles as a self-taught programmer; I figured that there was no struggle at all! Self taught programmers are full of numerous questions, but she didn’t seem to have any! Neither is there any progression of all the tasks she did. This is just one of possible approaches. For example, I actively ask very rarely, the mos…

Well, after a couple years of development, you have the vocabulary & terminology to search for & find your answers. Starting out, you wouldn't have that.

You might have a mentor (eg a parent) to ask instead though. Having no SO profile is not a sign you don't ask questions.

Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#97

Post by corpMaverick »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #91
gameswithgo wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously the fact that she was a woman made the story more appealing, which would be fine if it was a true story, it is nice for people to have role models they can identify with and be inspired by. Everyone loves an underdog story...well I do. I sometimes find the fact that women are successfully being high profile scam artists (Elizabeth Holmes etc) encouraging in a twisted way. Plenty of men have made a bunch of…

My point is if she did make the app herself it makes sense to hold her up as a role model but holding her up as a "prodigy" is counter productive. If anything it is a little sexist (not you, the "prodigy" idea). That if a 16 boy makes an app it's just normal but if a girl does it, she is a prodigy. We need to be teaching people that men and women are equal and that girls can do this stuff just the same as boys. Sayin…

IMHO, we shouldn't even use the word prodigy. It is a heavy weight for those who are labeled as such, and in most cases it is just a happy combination of passion, intelligence and hard work well directed.

Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#98

Post by JeremyNT »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #77

I have a related question. Since when is a 16 year old who makes an app a prodigy? Even if she did write it all by herself? I was getting paid to make back office software for local businesses at 13 in 1998 with absolutely no help from anyone and no one called me a prodigy. I'm sure tons of NH people have similar stories. I seem to remember a survey at one point that the average person on HN who actually codes starte…

It's unfortunate that this seems to be the case of fraud, but I hope people don't take the wrong lesson from it. "Kids" can be far more intelligent, persistent, and effective than many adults seem to be willing to believe. I don't think there's anything inherently implausible about the general story "16 year old creates usable and useful app," even if that's not what happened in this case.

Programming isn't magic, it's a skill one can learn, and at this moment of history it's easier than ever to get the information and tools required to do so. Teenagers (and younger kids) can learn incredibly quickly - if they decide to do so.

Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#100

Post by NightlyDev »

HenryBemis wrote: post #71
simias wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see where you're coming from but I think the point still stands. Making a fraud the poster child for a cause is worse than having no poster child at all. In general I'm always very wary of "teenage prodigies" stories, they're very marketable but I think they're bad for everybody involved: on one hand the "prodigy" is on exhibit like some kind of circus freak and at this age is probably ill-prepared to deal with the…

Lying is lying irrespective of gender. No way a 16yo kid can design start-to-end an app, learn how to code, learn how to build the UI, etc. Unless by "mentor" (as seen on the dialogue-screesnhot) means "X and Y designed this and that for me so all I did was put my name in the front page).

I see no reason why a 16 year old shouldn't be able to do that, and it's not that uncommon, especially these days with all the great resources available online.
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