Laws take a while to catch up with new technology. This will be fixed in 8-14 years after enough people are affected by this and congress finally gets lobbied enough. Early adopters will get hit the hardest though.
Cops won’t need a warrant to pull the data off an autonomous car
11–20 of 111 posts
Re: Cops won’t need a warrant to pull the data off an autonomous car
#12'I felt like I was in heaven,' the cop said. 'It's like instant replay in the NFL, I can tell what happened.' The engineers looked at each other like, 'Aw, crap.' As engineers, we have an obligation to think through privacy concerns. These (and nearly all) devices should either not retain data or should encrypt it. Also my self-driving car better not be phoning home or getting updates over the air. I've seen what hap…
Aircraft, even private aircraft, are tracked and recorded. Why should automobiles be any different? Far more people are killed and injured by vehicles than are killed by aircraft. In general I'm pretty pro-privacy but I've had way too many close calls and accidents with bad drivers who were found to be at fault. Maybe there's a better way to get to vision zero, and if so I'd love to hear it.
Cars, especially in the US, is very closely linked to the location of a person. For private aircraft that is generally not the case I assume.
I work for a semi-governmental organization in the Netherlands and we track ships. Tracking company-owned commercial ships is no problem, but we are heavily restricted by law in what we can do with the location data of privately owned ships because people live on them.
Re: Cops won’t need a warrant to pull the data off an autonomous car
#13They won‘t „pull the data off your car“ anyway, because all the interesting data will be elsewhere.
Also considering that all the big car manufacturers are working on business models where usually driver and owner are different entities this even gets more involved.
We had an interesting case in Germany where data ended up in the court room neither the manufacturer nor the car-sharing provider claimed to have.
Re: Cops won’t need a warrant to pull the data off an autonomous car
#14'I felt like I was in heaven,' the cop said. 'It's like instant replay in the NFL, I can tell what happened.' The engineers looked at each other like, 'Aw, crap.' As engineers, we have an obligation to think through privacy concerns. These (and nearly all) devices should either not retain data or should encrypt it. Also my self-driving car better not be phoning home or getting updates over the air. I've seen what hap…
Aircraft, even private aircraft, are tracked and recorded. Why should automobiles be any different? Far more people are killed and injured by vehicles than are killed by aircraft. In general I'm pretty pro-privacy but I've had way too many close calls and accidents with bad drivers who were found to be at fault. Maybe there's a better way to get to vision zero, and if so I'd love to hear it.
Far more people commit crimes than vehicles. So why not forcibly track all people?
Re: Cops won’t need a warrant to pull the data off an autonomous car
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
Aircraft, even private aircraft, are tracked and recorded. Why should automobiles be any different? Far more people are killed and injured by vehicles than are killed by aircraft. In general I'm pretty pro-privacy but I've had way too many close calls and accidents with bad drivers who were found to be at fault. Maybe there's a better way to get to vision zero, and if so I'd love to hear it.
Far more people commit crimes than vehicles. So why not forcibly track all people?
You mean, like, track people's phone location?
Re: Cops won’t need a warrant to pull the data off an autonomous car
#16'I felt like I was in heaven,' the cop said. 'It's like instant replay in the NFL, I can tell what happened.' The engineers looked at each other like, 'Aw, crap.' As engineers, we have an obligation to think through privacy concerns. These (and nearly all) devices should either not retain data or should encrypt it. Also my self-driving car better not be phoning home or getting updates over the air. I've seen what hap…
That quote is in the context of accident reconstruction. Putting aside the question of how many accidents there will be in our future autonomous world, accidents already leak personal information, especially if they lead to court cases, and it does not seem to me that improved crash investigation need necessarily leak any more. I think this is a qualitatively different situation than tracking people's location and who they communicate with, which is definitely a privacy issue, and not justified in the context of accident investigation.
Re: Cops won’t need a warrant to pull the data off an autonomous car
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
Aircraft, even private aircraft, are tracked and recorded. Why should automobiles be any different? Far more people are killed and injured by vehicles than are killed by aircraft. In general I'm pretty pro-privacy but I've had way too many close calls and accidents with bad drivers who were found to be at fault. Maybe there's a better way to get to vision zero, and if so I'd love to hear it.
Far more people commit crimes than vehicles. So why not forcibly track all people?
Apparently there's a correlation between thinking of committing a crime and committing it. We should probably find out a way to track that too!
Re: Cops won’t need a warrant to pull the data off an autonomous car
#18'I felt like I was in heaven,' the cop said. 'It's like instant replay in the NFL, I can tell what happened.' The engineers looked at each other like, 'Aw, crap.' As engineers, we have an obligation to think through privacy concerns. These (and nearly all) devices should either not retain data or should encrypt it. Also my self-driving car better not be phoning home or getting updates over the air. I've seen what hap…
The problem is that I do want the data to be stored because it could act as training data to make the vehicles better. But I also recognize the potential for abuse. This one's tricky...
That's one major reason companies will want all this telemetry. (And will it be streaming video over cell networks, dumping once back on home wifi?) Perhaps homomorphic encryption can help achieve both aims, or sending back aggregated data only.
Re: Cops won’t need a warrant to pull the data off an autonomous car
#19'I felt like I was in heaven,' the cop said. 'It's like instant replay in the NFL, I can tell what happened.' The engineers looked at each other like, 'Aw, crap.' As engineers, we have an obligation to think through privacy concerns. These (and nearly all) devices should either not retain data or should encrypt it. Also my self-driving car better not be phoning home or getting updates over the air. I've seen what hap…
That quote is in the context of accident reconstruction. Putting aside the question of how many accidents there will be in our future autonomous world, accidents already leak personal information, especially if they lead to court cases, and it does not seem to me that improved crash investigation need necessarily leak any more. I think this is a qualitatively different situation than tracking people's location and wh…
Yeah it's about an accident, but if an ordinary police officer can view this, you know more powerful agencies are going to collect all of it (incidentally).
Re: Cops won’t need a warrant to pull the data off an autonomous car
#20This is interesting. A true comprehensive rethink is required. When you rent a safe deposit box the law doesn't get automatic access (warrant etc is required). They law could consider buying just a ride from an AV service to be "renting" the car as you would a safe deposit box, house, or apartment and require a warrant for police access. But you'd have no authority over the cameras and other systems of all the other…
I wonder whether, along with the rollout of the infrastructure needed to support mass AVs, the govt will just be adding in traffic surveillance cameras as well? It seems to me that the infrastructure to support mass AV traffic would involve lots of sensors, cameras, and other electronic devices.