What Amazon Does to Poor Cities • Hacker News Board

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#91

Post by MrFoof » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 6:48 PM UTC

usaphp wrote: post #3

mrgreenfur wrote: post #2

Most folks I know seem blissfully unaware or uninterested in these realities behind their next day delivery. Even supremely liberal folks in boston and new york seem to think that complaining that their prime delivery being a day late or poorly packed is reasonable to gripe about, totally ignoring the human cost behind such offerings.

Customer is paying for a service that was promised to him and it’s reasonable to complain that the service was not provided.

This. This is what customer service is about -- taking care of the customer when things go badly. In the span of five weeks, Amazon had A) "lost" two packages (in reality, they were shipped to the wrong distribution center and weren't rerouted), B) were two days later on one, C) four days late on another, and D) EIGHT days late on the fifth.

For every single one, I contacted customer support and complained. As performance got worse, I actually got on the phone.

* The first time I was comped a month of prime. $8.

* The second time I was comped $20 in Amazon credit, and they reshipped the package ($55 in goods). I was told if the other one showed up, to keep both. The other one showed up the next week.

* Third time I was comped a month of prime ($8) and package was reshipped. This was $160 in electronics. I was told if the other showed up, to keep both. The second one showed up 2 weeks later.

* The fourth time I called I asked why I was paying for prime. After 10 minutes, the rep agreed. They refunded my entire year of prime ($100).

* Fifth time they didn't care. They admitted their performance was awful, and were confused how their logistics operation was doing so poorly, but if I didn't like the service I should go elsewhere.

To their credit, I was compensated $351 for five failures in five weeks, all of which were not in peak season (this was 60 days in advance of Holiday shopping season).

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#92

Post by stuaxo » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 6:50 PM UTC

You can do one line summaries without reading the article - without reading it the answer will be along the lines of "fucks them".

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#93

Post by JBlue42 » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 6:56 PM UTC

garybro wrote: post #23

A common theme I see with these articles is how "grueling" the work is. People need some perspective on what grueling work is. I worked at a UPS hub during college, where I'd load, unload, and sort the contents of trailers. What they do seems pretty easy compared to what I did at UPS. Picking and packing orders is a lot less grueling than unloading trailers full of 60 pound paper boxes, or loading hundreds of package…

Mine wasn't as taxing as that but I worked in a university textbook store receiving area one summer (usually in cafe or register during the school year). Just me and this much middle-aged guy that was usually down there on his on. We'd come in, he'd put on his gospel music and we'd get to it. The work went fast and it kept me in shape. Good times but not something to do forever.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#94

Post by JBlue42 » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 6:59 PM UTC

codemac wrote: post #59

garybro wrote: post #23

A common theme I see with these articles is how "grueling" the work is. People need some perspective on what grueling work is. I worked at a UPS hub during college, where I'd load, unload, and sort the contents of trailers. What they do seems pretty easy compared to what I did at UPS. Picking and packing orders is a lot less grueling than unloading trailers full of 60 pound paper boxes, or loading hundreds of package…

I think they aren't stating well what makes the work grueling. It's not about the weight of the items, it's about the systems amazon uses to grade/rate the workers. I've worked plenty of menial jobs, and the ones that just killed me inside were the ones that had extremely strict rules that eliminated my agency as a human. Unloading bricks for landscaping work? Hard labor, but mentally fantastic and I was only judged…

I wish I could upvote this more as I think it's an important point. When evaluating quality of jobs (not matter blue collar or white), agency is one of the important points behind job satisfaction.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#95

Post by JBlue42 » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 7:06 PM UTC

andrewjl wrote: post #80

lotsofpulp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the biggest ones are cheaper transportation to and from areas of the world with lower production costs and drastic increases in automation, both which lower the demand for human labor in the USA (and other developed countries). You can regulate all you want, but it would be better to focus on getting as much of the population ahead of the curve as possible as opposed to leaving them behind. At the end of the…

It's interesting to see this reduction in labor demand is coupled with new lows in the unemployment rate. There's a shortage of labor but employers don't seem to be willing to pay more to incentivize more people to enter the workforce (which is partially reflected in the so called "shadow" unemployment rate, which is higher). An increase in the minimum wage will cause one of two things to happen, both net good IMO: e…

I do wonder about the shadow rate. My unemployment just ended by running out. Does that mean I'm now counted in that rate? If I had found work, I basically stop certifying for benefits to let them know I'm employed. No one has sent me a letter asking if I'm working or not. I have to assume there are a lot of folks out there in a similar situation.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#96

Post by TheHegemon » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 7:08 PM UTC

andrewjl wrote: post #80

lotsofpulp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the biggest ones are cheaper transportation to and from areas of the world with lower production costs and drastic increases in automation, both which lower the demand for human labor in the USA (and other developed countries). You can regulate all you want, but it would be better to focus on getting as much of the population ahead of the curve as possible as opposed to leaving them behind. At the end of the…

It's interesting to see this reduction in labor demand is coupled with new lows in the unemployment rate. There's a shortage of labor but employers don't seem to be willing to pay more to incentivize more people to enter the workforce (which is partially reflected in the so called "shadow" unemployment rate, which is higher). An increase in the minimum wage will cause one of two things to happen, both net good IMO: e…

> employers to invest more in capital / automation or cause them to give all current and new employees a raise

Or more cynically: fire employees and do more with the remaining employees.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#97

Post by lotsofpulp » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

andrewjl wrote: post #80

lotsofpulp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the biggest ones are cheaper transportation to and from areas of the world with lower production costs and drastic increases in automation, both which lower the demand for human labor in the USA (and other developed countries). You can regulate all you want, but it would be better to focus on getting as much of the population ahead of the curve as possible as opposed to leaving them behind. At the end of the…

It's interesting to see this reduction in labor demand is coupled with new lows in the unemployment rate. There's a shortage of labor but employers don't seem to be willing to pay more to incentivize more people to enter the workforce (which is partially reflected in the so called "shadow" unemployment rate, which is higher). An increase in the minimum wage will cause one of two things to happen, both net good IMO: e…

Because some work isn't that valuable, and if wages cause the price of that product to rise too much then consumers will forego it. Occupations that pay highly are usually more inelastic in their demand compared to price.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#98

Post by groby_b » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

jen20 wrote: post #82

groby_b wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the end of the day, we just don't need secretaries, travel agents, We keep telling ourselves that, but it's a story. (Presumably so we can feel good about income inequality) A good secretary, or a good travel agent, are amazing . I'd pay good money to have either one available, and so would many other people. All we've done is put that work on people who already have another job, the people who used to be custom…

I travel a lot (~150 flights some years) and find that the disadvantages of booking through a travel agent usually outweigh the benefit for business travel. You usually end up on tickets with very restrictive conditions which cannot be modified other than via the travel agent themselves, often for more money than a less restrictive ticket could be bought directly with the airline. If you are many time zones away and…

Oh, completely agreed. I'm in the same boat, and for "just get me from A to B as cheap as possible", a travel agent is overkill. A secretary - or administrative assistant - is still worth their weight in gold here, though. Plus, the ludicrous "third party" rule disappears, since they book in your name.

But yes, your wider point holds: Travel agents aren't well suited for some kinds of travel. That, I'd argue, is more the business model than an inherent problem with travel agents.

If there was somebody whom you could tell "A to B, next week, one of these three carriers, cheapest price, here's my calendar, buy in my name" and you'd pay them a $20 commission to just make that happen, would you still decline a travel agent?

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#99

Post by Clubber » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 7:17 PM UTC

ars wrote: post #89

AlexandrB wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not [1]. But shouldn't we reach for something better? Really, I'm just upset about my own disillusionment. As a little kid I thought Silicon Valley was going to usher in a new era of technology and plenty. Something like Star Trek's utopian ideal of a society where scarcity is a thing of the past. What I see instead is the same old corporate bullshit of maximum exploitation for maximum profit. [1] http://www…

It did. Sort of. Even someone poor has a magic device in his pocket that can show almost any video ever, can talk to anyone, and give directions. People today have never been better off. A poor person today lives better than a king of old. Except that people always compare to each other. And that's never going to change.

>A poor person today lives better than a king of old.

That is an illusion to help people with their conscience. It does sound nice, but ...

The poor maybe eat better and maybe have better shelter, and certainly access to cleaner water, but they have significantly less control over their destiny. Also, kings didn't have to work and they were (usually) extremely wealthy, had servants, and could do whatever they wanted to. Kings had people to help them raise their children. Kings also didn't die from an easily treatable but ultimately unaffordable medical condition. Kings usually didn't get evicted for not paying rent on time. Kings didn't get arrested for trivial things and have to spend time in jail because they couldn't afford a lawyer. I could go on and on.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#100

Post by cbHXBY1D » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 7:22 PM UTC

nkrisc wrote: post #13

Mitchhhs wrote: post #6

I feel like journalists are just trying every way possible to create an anti-tech sentiment. Crazy how fast things can change from all hail the tech titans to oh these tech companies are creating a dystopia. Theres way too much noise in every aspect of information these days to help society focus on the problems that actually matter.

I think the tech companies themselves are doing a fine job of creating anti-tech sentiment on their own.

Public sentiment has turned at this point. Tech companies are no longer the intrepid, utopic little guy fighting the good fight -- they are the incumbents.

I would bet serious money that one of the hallmarks of the next presidential election is regulation of big tech. The backlash is building. That wave will have some mainstream politicians calling to break up big tech.