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What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

theatlantic.com

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Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#31

Post by ianferrel »

garybro wrote: post #23

A common theme I see with these articles is how "grueling" the work is. People need some perspective on what grueling work is. I worked at a UPS hub during college, where I'd load, unload, and sort the contents of trailers. What they do seems pretty easy compared to what I did at UPS. Picking and packing orders is a lot less grueling than unloading trailers full of 60 pound paper boxes, or loading hundreds of package…

I worked some hard-labor jobs when I was in college, too.

I think a major difference you're overlooking is that in your late teens and early 20s, you can do pretty hard labor without much effect.

I'm only in my mid 30s now and when I do a hard day's physical labor, I feel it a lot more.

Someone in their 40s or 50s or 60s is going to have a much harder time doing that kind of stuff every day.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#32

Post by RandallBrown »

mhneu wrote: post #14

These Amazon jobs are most useful to think about by comparison. Four decades ago, analogous jobs (manual labor, no college degree) were in the car industry: at Ford and GM. Those jobs were good middle-class jobs with good salaries. On those jobs, one could raise a family with a 40 hour work week, and do very well working 50-60 hours a week. Today, the similar jobs are in Amazon warehouses. What is different? A big on…

The big difference is that the margin on a car and the margin on shipping a package are different by a few orders of magnitude.

Also many auto manufacturing jobs were actually pretty skilled, so replacing the workers wasn't as easy.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#33

Post by _rpd »

dj-wonk wrote: post #7

Yes, intensively competitive companies like Amazon sometimes press workers hard. Without endorsing nor assigning blame to the company (which faces pressures from globalization and shareholders), there are many potential approaches to the problems: 1. Amazon could build a brand around treating workers better (UPS has at times had this reputation) and thus differentiate themselves and justify the cost of better pay and…

Amazon is already working to fully automate these warehouses. Actions that increase the cost of labor will simply accelerate this process.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#34

Post by 0xfeba »

usaphp wrote: post #3
mrgreenfur wrote: post #2

Most folks I know seem blissfully unaware or uninterested in these realities behind their next day delivery. Even supremely liberal folks in boston and new york seem to think that complaining that their prime delivery being a day late or poorly packed is reasonable to gripe about, totally ignoring the human cost behind such offerings.

Customer is paying for a service that was promised to him and it’s reasonable to complain that the service was not provided.

Yeah when I order atheist books they are beat up with no padding in the box half the time.

Replace those humans with robots please.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#35

Post by dj-wonk »

garybro wrote: post #23

A common theme I see with these articles is how "grueling" the work is. People need some perspective on what grueling work is. I worked at a UPS hub during college, where I'd load, unload, and sort the contents of trailers. What they do seems pretty easy compared to what I did at UPS. Picking and packing orders is a lot less grueling than unloading trailers full of 60 pound paper boxes, or loading hundreds of package…

I've worked for UPS delivery before, a long time ago, though only briefly. I liked the physicality of it. I can't speak to an Amazon fulfillment center, but I will say this: stress isn't only about physical demands. I think many people would prefer pure physical exertion (within limits) to long-term stress about job security. I think medical professionals can back this up.

One more thing. Often people's argument around these issues seems to end with: "it's better than no job at all". We can frame the issues in more constructive ways, don't you think? We should aim to find ways to adjust the system to better achieve the goals we want: innovative technology, fast delivery, fair pay, good benefits, subject to the complexities of the world.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#36

Post by saosebastiao »

garybro wrote: post #23

A common theme I see with these articles is how "grueling" the work is. People need some perspective on what grueling work is. I worked at a UPS hub during college, where I'd load, unload, and sort the contents of trailers. What they do seems pretty easy compared to what I did at UPS. Picking and packing orders is a lot less grueling than unloading trailers full of 60 pound paper boxes, or loading hundreds of package…

Amazon does most of the loading, unloading, and sorting the contents of the their carriers' trailers because they've negotiated rate benefits in exchange for doing it themselves.

I've done both. You may think picking and packing orders is less grueling, but it's not. Pick rate and pack rate expectations are high enough to ensure they're not. I'd take truckloading any day of the week.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#37

Post by crpatino »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #26
mhneu wrote: post #14

These Amazon jobs are most useful to think about by comparison. Four decades ago, analogous jobs (manual labor, no college degree) were in the car industry: at Ford and GM. Those jobs were good middle-class jobs with good salaries. On those jobs, one could raise a family with a 40 hour work week, and do very well working 50-60 hours a week. Today, the similar jobs are in Amazon warehouses. What is different? A big on…

I think the biggest ones are cheaper transportation to and from areas of the world with lower production costs and drastic increases in automation, both which lower the demand for human labor in the USA (and other developed countries). You can regulate all you want, but it would be better to focus on getting as much of the population ahead of the curve as possible as opposed to leaving them behind. At the end of the…

I know it is anathema to current globalist ideology, but that is why you want tarifs for. Do Foreighn Ruthless International (FRI) wants to sell his trinkets produced with near-slave labor? Sure, just slap it a 100% tax to it and make it play level with your very own Beautifully Crafted Trinkets, Inc. (BCT) Then, if you are a really enlightened despot, use the extra cash from FRI taxes to build better infrastructure locally, so that BCT can save other costs rather than labor.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#39

Post by danans »

marsrover wrote: post #16

> “It’s a step back from where we were,” said Pat Morris, the former mayor, about the jobs that Amazon offers. “But it’s a lot better than where we would otherwise be,” he said. That makes complete sense. /s It sounds like where you were was a city without jobs. > San Bernardino is just one of the many communities across the country grappling with the same question: Is any new job a good job? Yes, if you don't have a…

> Something that can't be attributed to rising inflation?

Sure, but probably a very particular type of inflation: housing cost. Wages for unskilled labor haven't increased at a rate to account for rising housing costs, exacerbated further by insufficient housing supply, and demand for housing has gone up due the increased number of jobs.

Median household income in San Bernardino is 39k/yr (pretax) [1]. Median rent is 16k/yr [2]. So the median household spends nearly 42% of their pretax income on housing. The other necessary expenses of life (especially if you are far below median income and have dependents) will quickly eat through the rest.

There is a dynamic at play in which several factors, including the increase in lower paid jobs and population, is increasing poverty rates.

[1] http://www.bestplaces.net/economy/city/california/san_bernar...

[2] https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/ca/sa...

EDIT: found a more conservative median rent citation and updated the figures based on that.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#40

Post by _rpd »

Mitchhhs wrote: post #6

I feel like journalists are just trying every way possible to create an anti-tech sentiment. Crazy how fast things can change from all hail the tech titans to oh these tech companies are creating a dystopia. Theres way too much noise in every aspect of information these days to help society focus on the problems that actually matter.

No one reads "everything is okay" stories. Journalists need people to click through to their stories and view their advertisements. It's how they get paid.
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