What Amazon Does to Poor Cities • Hacker News Board

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#11

Post by AlexandrB » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

It frequently seems to be the case that when tech companies interact with unskilled labor, the unskilled labor gets a worse deal than they would before the tech economy. See Uber, Amazon, Blue Apron, and many others.

In me this inspires a high-level of cynicism. Now when I hear a startup wanting to "change the world" I'm always curious whose underpaid labor is going to subsidize that change. Underneath all the Silicon Valley virtue signalling about improving the state of mankind you see the same gears and levers of labor exploitation as old-school sweatshop manufacturers like Nike.

And make no mistake, the ultimate goal is to make the "knowledge workers" at these companies just as expendable.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#12

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#13

Post by nkrisc » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 5:01 PM UTC

Mitchhhs wrote: post #6

I feel like journalists are just trying every way possible to create an anti-tech sentiment. Crazy how fast things can change from all hail the tech titans to oh these tech companies are creating a dystopia. Theres way too much noise in every aspect of information these days to help society focus on the problems that actually matter.

I think the tech companies themselves are doing a fine job of creating anti-tech sentiment on their own.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#14

Post by mhneu » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 5:01 PM UTC

These Amazon jobs are most useful to think about by comparison.

Four decades ago, analogous jobs (manual labor, no college degree) were in the car industry: at Ford and GM. Those jobs were good middle-class jobs with good salaries. On those jobs, one could raise a family with a 40 hour work week, and do very well working 50-60 hours a week.

Today, the similar jobs are in Amazon warehouses. What is different? A big one is that we have removed worker protections from our economy. By going to an unregulated free market, now Jeff Bezos is a multi-billionaire and his workers are living in near-poverty.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#15

Post by sildur » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

mrgreenfur wrote: post #2

Most folks I know seem blissfully unaware or uninterested in these realities behind their next day delivery. Even supremely liberal folks in boston and new york seem to think that complaining that their prime delivery being a day late or poorly packed is reasonable to gripe about, totally ignoring the human cost behind such offerings.

They should replace workers with robots. That would remove the human cost.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#16

Post by marsrover » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

> “It’s a step back from where we were,” said Pat Morris, the former mayor, about the jobs that Amazon offers. “But it’s a lot better than where we would otherwise be,” he said.

That makes complete sense. /s It sounds like where you were was a city without jobs.

> San Bernardino is just one of the many communities across the country grappling with the same question: Is any new job a good job?

Yes, if you don't have a job then any job is a good job. Sentiments like this article is why people are "too good to work for McDonalds."

> The share of people living in poverty in San Bernardino was at 28.1 percent in 2016, the most recent year for which census data is available, compared to 23.4 in 2011, the year before Amazon arrived.

Something that can't be attributed to rising inflation? These are meaningless stats.

I didn't read the rest.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#17

Post by gbacon » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 5:03 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #8

refurb wrote: post #4

Sure, Amazon fulfillment center jobs might not be high-paying, middle class jobs, but what's the alternative for these areas? High unemployment and stagnation?

There is a middle ground between "barely subsistence wages" and "high-paying, middle class wages" that Amazon could meet, and still be profitable.

The beauty of the market is a legitimate complaint can be rephrased as a business plan. Think: Target versus Walmart.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#18

Post by logfromblammo » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 5:04 PM UTC

saosebastiao wrote: post #9

It would be convenient to think that the Amazon ops executives have this all figured out and that the numbers support their labor strategy, but after having been one of the people whose job it was to put data in front of those executives, I wouldn't trust their judgment with data at all. Their ideologies and their incompetence trap them to inferior analysis. They think their pay is good because it is higher than othe…

Article stated that Amazon warehouse pay was higher than non-warehouse jobs, but lower than comparable warehouse jobs with other companies (at least in the Inland Empire of California). But all the other warehouses already have enough employees to meet their needs, and Amazon is the only one actually hiring.

I'm sure all those other warehouses love how Amazon is training up so many employees that can be poached at will.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#19

Post by lotsofpulp » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 5:04 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #8

refurb wrote: post #4

Sure, Amazon fulfillment center jobs might not be high-paying, middle class jobs, but what's the alternative for these areas? High unemployment and stagnation?

There is a middle ground between "barely subsistence wages" and "high-paying, middle class wages" that Amazon could meet, and still be profitable.

Then consumers will switch to purchasing from Walmart.com at a lower price. Voluntarily paying people more is not a long term solution. The long term solution is to invest in education and help foster environments where people are investing in themselves and are able to be creative and increase the size of the economic pie. But that would require policies that help provide a stable home, and worst of all, redistribution of resources.

Re: What Amazon Does to Poor Cities

#20

Post by amarkov » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #8

refurb wrote: post #4

Sure, Amazon fulfillment center jobs might not be high-paying, middle class jobs, but what's the alternative for these areas? High unemployment and stagnation?

There is a middle ground between "barely subsistence wages" and "high-paying, middle class wages" that Amazon could meet, and still be profitable.

Is there? Amazon's retail business runs on a razor-thin profit margin, and in fact Amazon was famous for not being profitable until a few years ago.