India Wants to Give Half a Billion People Free Health Care • Hacker News Board

Re: India Wants to Give Half a Billion People Free Health Care

#31

Post by dv_dt » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

sol_remmy wrote: post #29

dv_dt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universal healthcare is cast as a 'populist' measure in the US. But if you look at data of cost of healthcare for nations applying universal healthcare vs those who do not in developed nations, India might rationally look at it as an economic efficiency measure. Agricultural supports also can be looked at with a political filter, but the US provides government back agricultural insurance as a positive economic measur…

> Universal healthcare is cast as a 'populist' measure in the US. But if you look at data of cost of healthcare for nations applying universal healthcare vs those who do not in developed nations, India might rationally look at it as an economic efficiency measure. You are using a bait-and-switch debate tactic. Nothing that you said disproves that claim that "Universal healthcare is a 'populist' measure"

That's not bait-and-switch. I'm claiming that populist or not populist is an irrelevant measure.

Re: India Wants to Give Half a Billion People Free Health Care

#32

Post by groby_b » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 5:35 PM UTC

holydude wrote: post #21

We got free healthcare in europe that i pay for with atrociously high taxes. Yet whenever i actually need to visit a doctor i always go to a private one.

Let me translate that: "I sure have a lot of money".

The point is having a doctor available for everybody, not just the people who can afford it. Yes, those of us who make more money pay more for it, in the form of taxes.

Ultimately, you'll need to decide if you want to care only about your wellbeing, or about society's wellbeing.

Re: India Wants to Give Half a Billion People Free Health Care

#33

Post by tejaswiy » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 5:38 PM UTC

The govt. of Andhra Pradesh (a state in India) has pioneered a state backed insurance program several years ago with reasonable success (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aarogyasri). The problem however with these programs is that corruption within the healthcare industry is still endemic and doctors create fake diagnoses and perform unnecessary surgeries on patients to get their reimbursements from Aarogya-sri. If this program is to be rolled out a national scale, the govt. needs to address the systematic corruption in the healthcare industry first.

That said, I think Aarogyasri was overall a huge success in my state and has saved millions of lives and I'm excited to see it being adopted at a national level.

Re: India Wants to Give Half a Billion People Free Health Care

#34

Post by digikata » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 5:42 PM UTC

thisisit wrote: post #19

dv_dt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universal healthcare is cast as a 'populist' measure in the US. But if you look at data of cost of healthcare for nations applying universal healthcare vs those who do not in developed nations, India might rationally look at it as an economic efficiency measure. Agricultural supports also can be looked at with a political filter, but the US provides government back agricultural insurance as a positive economic measur…

Isn't universal healthcare that all people and communities have the same access to healthcare? India's population is 1.3 billion and this says it will cover 500 million people. So, it doesn't cover all people and communities. It covers some part of the population. Let's say Obamacare covered only a specific section of US what would have happened then? To clarify my stand here, I am in favor of Universal Healthcare bu…

The ACA did only cover a section of the US. 27 million were (are?) uninsured under the ACA.

https://www.kff.org/uninsured/fact-sheet/key-facts-about-the...

I don't know the right answer on specifics of agricultural policy. I wish grains were less emphasized in US agricultural supports - but I also acknowledge that there is a built up knowledge base, and capital momentum around grains and the efficiency of food systems (as a total system around citizen health), isn't trivial. You have to trade off energy->food, caloric efficiency, and total health just to name a few factors.

Re: India Wants to Give Half a Billion People Free Health Care

#35

Post by vidarh » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 5:43 PM UTC

mickelsen wrote: post #24

ucaetano wrote: post #9

Giving free healthcare is a good step, but the important question is how good will it be and how much will be covered. Brazil has 100% of its population (210M people) covered by free, single-payer, universal healthcare, resulting in a life expectancy of 75 years (US is 79, Japan and Switzerland with 83 IIRC). But your experience can vary dramatically. It all depends on how much money is actually being put on it (in h…

Not necessarily a counterpoint but Chile's dual system -private and public, both with copay for most- gives them a life expectancy of 81.79 years, surpassing a lot of more developed countries with free universal healthcare.

Almost every universal healthcare system is has some degree of mix of private and public.

Norway is on the far extreme with it's strict restrictions on private healthcare. Almost every other country has private healthcare insurance as at least an option.

The question tends to be how much you end up contributing towards public healthcare if you take out a private option - ranging from no difference (you pay the same taxes no matter what), to only healthcare for poor/unemployed coming out of general taxation.

Re: India Wants to Give Half a Billion People Free Health Care

#36

Post by dv_dt » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 5:45 PM UTC

thisisit wrote: post #19

dv_dt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universal healthcare is cast as a 'populist' measure in the US. But if you look at data of cost of healthcare for nations applying universal healthcare vs those who do not in developed nations, India might rationally look at it as an economic efficiency measure. Agricultural supports also can be looked at with a political filter, but the US provides government back agricultural insurance as a positive economic measur…

Isn't universal healthcare that all people and communities have the same access to healthcare? India's population is 1.3 billion and this says it will cover 500 million people. So, it doesn't cover all people and communities. It covers some part of the population. Let's say Obamacare covered only a specific section of US what would have happened then? To clarify my stand here, I am in favor of Universal Healthcare bu…

I think this is a much better level of discussion than populist or not-populist.

Re: India Wants to Give Half a Billion People Free Health Care

#37

Post by vidarh » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

thisisit wrote: post #19

dv_dt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universal healthcare is cast as a 'populist' measure in the US. But if you look at data of cost of healthcare for nations applying universal healthcare vs those who do not in developed nations, India might rationally look at it as an economic efficiency measure. Agricultural supports also can be looked at with a political filter, but the US provides government back agricultural insurance as a positive economic measur…

Isn't universal healthcare that all people and communities have the same access to healthcare? India's population is 1.3 billion and this says it will cover 500 million people. So, it doesn't cover all people and communities. It covers some part of the population. Let's say Obamacare covered only a specific section of US what would have happened then? To clarify my stand here, I am in favor of Universal Healthcare bu…

In a lot of countries with universal healthcare it is provided by the government insuring the poorest and the unemployed, and requiring everyone else to insure themselves. The idea being that it gives those with the means who might want to pick and choose higher levels of coverage can do so, but nobody gets left behind.

Re: India Wants to Give Half a Billion People Free Health Care

#38

Post by rhizome » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

sol_remmy wrote: post #30

ucaetano wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brazil's is also dual, everyone gets covered by the public system, but there are plenty of private systems. And Chile is always a special case, the combination of natural resources, small population and good public systems does wonder for the country. Despite the extreme differences, I tend to compare Chile to the Nordic countries more than with LatAm. Not sure if that's scalable to larger countries, which is always…

> And Chile is always a special case, the combination of natural resources, small population and good public systems does wonder for the country. Despite the extreme differences, I tend to compare Chile to the Nordic countries more than with LatAm. You are flat out wrong with this comparison. Chile has one of the lowest tax burdens in the world. It can be accurately compared to either Hong Kong or Singapore. Average…

While some promote tax policy as the most important (sometimes the only) measure of national value, it actually doesn't make them "opposites."

Re: India Wants to Give Half a Billion People Free Health Care

#39

Post by chimeracoder » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 5:51 PM UTC

baby wrote: post #23

holydude wrote: post #21

We got free healthcare in europe that i pay for with atrociously high taxes. Yet whenever i actually need to visit a doctor i always go to a private one.

oh, where do you find private doctors in France?

> oh, where do you find private doctors in France?

Most doctors in France are private practitioners. They may or may not draw some (or all) of their revenue from insurance, which is partly funded by the government, but not fully (only a little more than 70% of health costs, in the aggregate).

Re: India Wants to Give Half a Billion People Free Health Care

#40

Post by kumarm » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 5:54 PM UTC

tejaswiy wrote: post #33

The govt. of Andhra Pradesh (a state in India) has pioneered a state backed insurance program several years ago with reasonable success ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aarogyasri ). The problem however with these programs is that corruption within the healthcare industry is still endemic and doctors create fake diagnoses and perform unnecessary surgeries on patients to get their reimbursements from Aarogya-sri. If th…

Definitely Aarogyasri in AP saved millions of Lives. Current administration tried to remove the program since its not introduced by them and can't take credit for. So they are trying to kill it slowly (By removing people from program, cutting benefits etc).

I wonder what will happen to this Free Health insurance program when central government changes next time.