Things are going so well we’re doing a hiring freeze • Hacker News Board

Re: Things are going so well we’re doing a hiring freeze

#41

Post by combatentropy » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 4:54 PM UTC

I would love to work at a company like Basecamp. Are there any other companies like them?

- Less is more. Jason Fried is such a minimalist, https://www.inc.com/magazine/20091101/the-way-i-work-jason-f...

- Few formal meetings.

- No full-time managers.

- In fact, just about everything in their books Getting Real, https://basecamp.com/books/getting-real, and Rework.

They do things that I've always felt are right but could not well argue. They are the opposite of most companies in so many ways, especially big corporations.

If you haven't read their books, you might tell me, just work at a start-up. But you really have to go through Getting Real to see how much they differ from everyone else, even your typical start-up. The chapter about doing less than your competition is particularly devastating, different than even most start-ups.

Re: Things are going so well we’re doing a hiring freeze

#42

Post by f33g91pv43232f » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 4:55 PM UTC

Mc_Big_G wrote: post #21

amflare wrote: post #3

Even if you don't read the article, you should read this story[0] that it links to. Which explains the mindset behind the decision. It's only like 200 words. [0]: http://renewablewealth.com/the-parable-of-the-mexican-fisher...

I like the story but there's a glaring omission. Financial security. All you have to do to make the story fall apart is introduce a serious illness or handicap in his wife or kids.

If you take the anecdote to be for an individual (or just a few), yes.

Now take it to the economy.

Economy != business or individuals. If an individual "saves" it means they forgo consumption, so that resources can go elsewhere. When the economy "saves" (and let's assume we are talking about all of earth) it means - what? The same economic activity but fewer people buy something? Doesn't quite work. We could leave resources like oil in the ground to "save".

On the scale of the economy, there is no "saving" for retirees, not unless you are looking for other nations to fill the gap (but let's look at the whole earth so that won't work unless you find aliens). The currently working population has to produce everything needed for the currently living population. How would "saving" look like, I ask again? They produce much more and put it into giant warehouses to be used 30 years later?

That anecdote for the economy could mean that you stop trying to sell people stuff they don't need (more insurance, more cars, more... stuff). you can still invest into R&D, and more relaxed and less stressed people will be much more productive in this field than stressed ones.

Looking at studies of worker satisfaction and - a bit more unscientifically but still enlightening for its popularity (this and similar ones) - Dilbert cartoons, and also reddit or HN anecdotes and what I see for myself, a sizable amount of the workforce thinks their work contribution is rather meaningless. Still, we are forced to keep going. There is no option to stop and think "hey, my job is actually pretty useless". If you act on such a thought you will be severely punished by society. Anyone who claims that "the market" takes care of all those inefficiencies... well, okay then.

Re: Things are going so well we’re doing a hiring freeze

#43

Post by dasil003 » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 4:56 PM UTC

taw-an wrote: post #4

sure, but how do the employees feel about it? what happens when support work balloons but you have the same amount of staff? this is just an excuse to extract more profits coated in technofounderbabble.

How do the employees feel about it? I’d bet a lot of money they’re in the top 5% retention among tech companies. Also they’re probably pretty happy to avoid the constant churn and failed projects of working in a company desperately chasing hypergrowth.

I imagine customers are pretty happy too knowing that they aren’t at risk of the company being flipped and the product discontinued or bloated in order to attract the next order of magnitude growth from corporate buyers who will themselves never use the product.

Your last sentence is the most laughably ironic since the entire VC game is to extract value from the energy and drive of young people with the promises of Facebook riches which will only ever materialize for a vanishingly small number of individuals, especially amongst the rank and file.

Re: Things are going so well we’re doing a hiring freeze

#44

Post by xchaotic » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 4:56 PM UTC

amarkov wrote: post #33

sodapopcan wrote: post #19

It's insane how making a profit seems to considered "uncool" in the business world. Basecamp and particularly Jason Fried's writings (I realize this is particular article is by DHH) are super inspirational. I wish that building a solid, profitable business as opposed to being so focused on growth and finding more investors was more of the norm. I want to work at Basecamp even more now, haha.

I doubt that anyone on the business side considers it uncool to build a small but profitable company. It's definitely cooler than having a VC shove you along the path to an acquisition by BigCorp Ltd. Engineers sometimes consider those companies uncool, but that's just because they usually can't pay market rate for the best engineers.

So much this (not the case with Basecamp who pay SF rates apparently), if one doesn't want to run the business side of things - propping up business, chasing up invoices, early HR etc, then such a small business will usually not be able to pay him as much as Facebook or Google... So it's it's good enough for the founders but not good enough for other talented engineers who'd otherwise join.

Re: Things are going so well we’re doing a hiring freeze

#45

Post by solidsnack9000 » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

netrus wrote: post #15

amflare wrote: post #3

Even if you don't read the article, you should read this story[0] that it links to. Which explains the mindset behind the decision. It's only like 200 words. [0]: http://renewablewealth.com/the-parable-of-the-mexican-fisher...

I think it is based on Böll's "Anekdote zur Senkung der Arbeitsmoral" [1] - not only a great short story, but a great title as well ("Anecdote concerning the Lowering of Productivity" - but also "[An] anecdote [meant to] lower productivity"). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anekdote_zur_Senkung_der_Arbei...

In that story, the fishing village is in Western Europe.

Re: Things are going so well we’re doing a hiring freeze

#46

Post by solidsnack9000 » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

Tepix wrote: post #29

netrus wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is based on Böll's "Anekdote zur Senkung der Arbeitsmoral" [1] - not only a great short story, but a great title as well ("Anecdote concerning the Lowering of Productivity" - but also "[An] anecdote [meant to] lower productivity"). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anekdote_zur_Senkung_der_Arbei...

"Senkung der Arbeitsmoral" does not translate into "lower productivity". Arbeitsmoral means working morale. Senkung means reduction.

Perhaps “Arbeitsmoral” could be translated as “work ethic”.

Re: Things are going so well we’re doing a hiring freeze

#47

Post by mankash666 » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

The only thing novel here is the blogging/marketing. Lots of profitable companies don't hire when they don't need to - they don't brand it a "hiring freeze", blog about it and have strangers fawn over the concept.

Re: Things are going so well we’re doing a hiring freeze

#48

Post by tinymollusk » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 5:10 PM UTC

crdoconnor wrote: post #20

sodapopcan wrote: post #19

It's insane how making a profit seems to considered "uncool" in the business world. Basecamp and particularly Jason Fried's writings (I realize this is particular article is by DHH) are super inspirational. I wish that building a solid, profitable business as opposed to being so focused on growth and finding more investors was more of the norm. I want to work at Basecamp even more now, haha.

shrug VCs seem to prefer 1 hypergrowth startup and 20 failures in their portfolio to 17 solid, growing, profitable startups without hypergrowth and 4 failures.

This is because the portfolio strategy (1 hypergrowth + 20 failures) is the best strategy from the VC perspective. It's nearly impossible to know which startups will succeed (high uncertainty decision making), and very difficult to know how big the successful ones could be (open ended results).

If it were simply as easy as building 17 solid startups to just 4 failures, I'm sure there would be more investment in that area. It seems much more likely to have maybe 5 solid startups (20% annual profit), 5 with possibilities (losing 20-30% per month) and 11 failures.

Entrepreneurs suffer from their biased perspective; of course my startup could be solid and profitable, because otherwise why would I continue working on it? Therefore it seems rational to assume you can identify prospectively profitable startups.

My opinion is that VC investment is a crapshoot, where nobody knows the odds of a given company. They're buying lotto tickets, and they'd rather buy $5mm tickets that have a max prize in the billions, instead of a $100k ticket that has a max prize in the millions.

To change the current system, all we need to do is come up with a guaranteed way of evaluating whether a startup will be profitable.

Re: Things are going so well we’re doing a hiring freeze

#49

Post by razialx » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 5:12 PM UTC

eitland wrote: post #32

razialx wrote: post #5

Congratulations. You've figured out how to make me want to apply to your company! In the same way that I will never stop wanting to move to Norway, since they don't want me, I will now forever desire to work for Basecamp... I am so easily manipulated.

Getting into Norway doesn't seem too hard - but I'm open to be told why I'm wrong. Here is what I found: "Broadly speaking, the award of a residence permit depends on two things: your country of citizenship and your ability to financially sustain yourself and any dependents. This generally means you need a job offer, or you must prove financial sustainability if you are coming to Norway to study or for some other rea…

Interesting. I just recall reading an article that went on about how your best chance of getting in is to marry in, which is unlikely for myself as I'm happily married already!

There was never anything specific about Norway (as compared to the other Scandinavian countries that generally top happiness indexes and such) just that the article said that I _couldn't_ live there.

Re: Things are going so well we’re doing a hiring freeze

#50

Post by watwut » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 5:19 PM UTC

wavefunction wrote: post #12

ppeetteerr wrote: post #7

I really like their approach but I want to comment on the Mexican Fisherman story. Neither the fisherman nor the banker have it right. You see, the banker may be overly ambitious, but the fisherman is not taking precaution against future's uncertainty. You can be sure DHH has enough money and he doesn't need the headache of running a big business. The fisherman, on the other hand, may want to consider the day he cann…

The Mexican fisherman leans on his family and friends, his community, when he runs into trouble. The banker relies on a socialized bailout.

The fisherman gets little support from community, because they are still pissed he testified against popular community member back then. Closed small communities often work that way.