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Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

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Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#531

Post by tonyedgecombe »

scribu wrote: post #417
hathawsh wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm upvoting you just for engaging in this conversation, even though I thoroughly disagree with you. :-) The "distributism" described above is the dream of virtually every rural community. People choose to live in rural communities because it's a little piece of heaven for them: they are surrounded by people they know, they have clean air, the earth is right beneath their feet, the stars are bright, the pace is slow,…

The problem is that a small community can’t develop or even maintain advanced technology, including that required for sanitation and healthcare. So, you either choose total independence and low technology or interdependence with other groups and advanced tech.

Distributism includes the principle of subsidiarity, it doesn't exclude the fact that you need large organisations to produce some technology, just that you should tend towards the smallest organisation that can achieve what you need. Capitalism seems to be tending towards the opposite where the winner takes all.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#532

Post by tonyedgecombe »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #442
hathawsh wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm upvoting you just for engaging in this conversation, even though I thoroughly disagree with you. :-) The "distributism" described above is the dream of virtually every rural community. People choose to live in rural communities because it's a little piece of heaven for them: they are surrounded by people they know, they have clean air, the earth is right beneath their feet, the stars are bright, the pace is slow,…

Wouldn't it also be possible to see that as rural residents putting on a brave face? The general trend has been towards urbanization globally for the past century or more, and relatively few young people growing up in rural communities seem to be interested in staying in them in the US[1]. 1: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-20/rural-ame...

Isn't that just a reflection of where jobs are, which is in turn a reflection of our increasing specialisation. I know there are almost no jobs for computer science graduates within ten miles of the village I live in. The choice is to move to the city or work in the local supermarket.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#533

Post by tonyedgecombe »

zjaffee wrote: post #411
visarga wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> distributism Thank you for giving a name to something I have been pondering a lot. I have come to this conclusion by thinking about automation and technological unemployment. If people own land, or productive tools, they can be self reliant and exist without jobs from corporations, or help from the state. Naturally people would organise as a cooperative or a market of services, exchanging services for services, bec…

This already exists, and is in many ways a form of communism. Take a look at kibutz's in israel.

You see it in my locality, none of the local farmers own their harvesting machines, as a group they own the machinery collectively. This is still a long way from communism though.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#535

Post by mykull »

austenallred wrote: post #114
prklmn wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes beyond pricing. Mutual insurance policy owners were paid dividends based on principle investment. Berkshire pays dividends to shareholders, i.e. Warren Buffet, while policy holders get nothing but insurance coverage.

Buffet decoupled investments from insurance, because he thought (IMO rightly) they should be different products. And his companies only win to the degree that consumers choose them. That’s a great thing.

Consumers don't as a group "choose" anything independently in the sense that their biases and psychological faults and the structure of incentives in our society are all used to make consumers act against their own interests and the interests of the whole. When our "best and brightest" are only committed to profit, we cannibalize ourselves. It isn't progressive. There is no scenario where shitting on the masses to help yourself results in a win for humankind. Not at this stage in history.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#536

Post by adreamingsoul »

tjr225 wrote: post #529
bonesss wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two actually statistics underlying the discussion here, and from my reading both points are right (though disagreeing that we're urbanizing is incorrect)... 1) Our general trend is towards urbanization, humanity is now more urban than rural, and every quality of life index shows cities give more good to more people better. 2) Millennials, hipsters in particular, in American markets with crushing real estate…

I'm totally in the camp who wants to move back to the Midwest and buy some acreage- my point was mainly that the person I responded to flat out stated that the parent commenter was wrong which is not the case.

Statistical significance aside, blanket statements such as what I responded to are simple, not true when compared to reality. I do not believe that humans can be unbiased when interrupting data to form a conclusive hypothesis. This is why the scientific community has a peer-review process to filter out biases.

However, I will agree that my initial response was lacking and would have been better if not stated at all.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#537

Post by robbiemitchell »

johnrob wrote: post #266
robbiemitchell wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the benefits a profit motive brings to insurance companies is pushing back on improper billing by providers (doctors/hospitals) and negotiating lowest possible care and drug rates. Tech-focused insurers like Oscar also invest heavily to help guide members toward better care paths, which if done well lead to better care at less expense (for both the member and insurer). Unrelated: one of the worst parts of insu…

Not always - the other way to mitigate billing inflation is to increase premiums (which would explain the last 20 years).

It's both. But there are also laws that limit an insurer's ability to push back. For example, ALL out-of-network emergency services must be covered, including all follow-up work that occurs as part of being admitted due to an emergency.

Out of network means the insurer and provider have not previously negotiated a rate. And emergency services are among the most expensive bills out there.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#538

Post by tjr225 »

adreamingsoul wrote: post #536
tjr225 wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm totally in the camp who wants to move back to the Midwest and buy some acreage- my point was mainly that the person I responded to flat out stated that the parent commenter was wrong which is not the case.

Statistical significance aside, blanket statements such as what I responded to are simple, not true when compared to reality. I do not believe that humans can be unbiased when interrupting data to form a conclusive hypothesis. This is why the scientific community has a peer-review process to filter out biases. However, I will agree that my initial response was lacking and would have been better if not stated at all.

:thumbsup:

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#539

Post by LinuxBender »

comicjk wrote: post #503
LinuxBender wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was with Kaiser for a long time because I never needed a doctor. When I did, I had to fire kaiser. They nearly killed me. Talking to my coworkers, it turns out this is quite common. They hire a lot of people that received their medical degree in countries with much lower standards. It's actually quite concerning how many people I know IRL that lost friends due to misdiagnosis by Kaiser. It doesn't help that you can…

If you want to convince me, show me the relevant statistics. Medical errors are not unknown from other health providers.

I am not looking to convince anyone. I know what I experienced. My friends know what they experienced. That is more than enough for me to have left KP and to warn my friends regarding my experiences. I have advised various agencies of my experiences.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#540

Post by larsahlstrom »

visarga wrote: post #325
jawns wrote: post #7

> The three companies said they plan to set up a new independent company "that is free from profit-making incentives and constraints." I wonder if they will be setting it up as a health insurance cooperative, an organizational structure in which the primary goal is to serve its members, rather than to generate value for external shareholders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_cooperative It's not at all…

> distributism Thank you for giving a name to something I have been pondering a lot. I have come to this conclusion by thinking about automation and technological unemployment. If people own land, or productive tools, they can be self reliant and exist without jobs from corporations, or help from the state. Naturally people would organise as a cooperative or a market of services, exchanging services for services, bec…

"If people own land"

I limit my comment to that. Truth is that.. 1. Your military secure the borders of what all knows as USA. 2. You have defined land area. 3. And you have a certain number of people living there within.

Now divide your lanarea with number of people, and see how much land everybody has the right to.

You cannot OWN land. You can secure it. To OWN lan you have to have a proof of origin of the land. Nobody has. As the land is much older than your relatives way way back. People try to avoid this and manipulate "laws" to be able to own land, which is just criminal.

Your land should be owned by all of you. It is a fedaral issue. A State defines often as something evil. Thats the rich 1%'ers propaganda and thei dreams.

A State in you case is Federal USA. And it should keep records of the land, and everybode should arrend, hire, their birth right. It is simply only that way you can "own" land.

You may find this rediculous... but it is the truth. In my country there is 9 million people on a secured land of 445000km2. Gives me about 10 footbolls field side by side of land. I also have kid and a wife that has the same as I.

If the world would be managed by the truth.

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