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No, You can't retire rich at 30 if you sell your startup

tonywright.com

71–80 of 221 posts

Re: No, You can't retire rich at 30 if you sell your startup

#71
Microsoft held a launch event for the original Xbox back in Fall of 2001 for retailers. It showed what it was all about, let people play almost-complete versions of Halo and several other launch titles, etc...

One of the speakers started talking about demographics, such as who they expected to buy the console. One point of their market research jumped out: The average male Xbox consumer in the (approx) 18-25 year old range expected to be a millionaire by age 30.

Hmmm, that's me! (I was 21 at the time) But this would be an impossible goal for 99.9% of us. At the time a lot of paper-millionaires were recently minted in the dot-com boom, likely throwing off my perception and that of others.

It turns out I felt "entitled" to be a millionaire by 30. But in reality, entitlement usually disappoints since it discourages hard work, dreams get shattered, and expectations are eventually lowered. It's a chronic disease best avoided.

Fortunately this triggered a wake-up-call and encouraged me to work harder. Being a millionaire by age 30 isn't as important anymore. Instead, being intelligent enough and positioned properly by age 30 to do great things, and maybe eventually become a millionaire, is far more important. The goal of money is still desired as it brings elevated freedom, and the sooner you get it the better, of course. But it can be blinding if that's all you care about.

Re: No, You can't retire rich at 30 if you sell your startup

#72

I think I could get by on $30,000 a year and working on my own ISV in a nice Latin American country. Is anyone doing that here?

About $35000 here in Thailand gives me a lifestyle that I think of as lavish and decadent, but I guess the OP would consider frugal and cautious. 120sqm condo beside the sea, eat out every night, tennis and language lessons. I could probably cut the budget down to around $20000 in a pinch and still live comfortably. The major downside is that there aren't many hackers about.

Re: No, You can't retire rich at 30 if you sell your startup

#73
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How the hell are all of our parents going to fare when you need 500,000 to maintain an upper-middle class lifestyle? If the past 40 years are a guide to the future, then the lifestyle we currently define as "upper-middle class" will be redefined as "poverty" and will be available to virtually everyone, including people who can't even be bothered to find a job. People will continue to complain about the declining midd…

this is a libertarian fantasy and nothing more. Wages for most people have been stagnant or declining while energy prices are steadily rising. This is a huge problem

Please tell me which point I'm wrong on. Do most people not live in larger houses, enjoy greater automation of housework, enjoy larger and better entertainment technologies, and benefit from medical procedures which did not exist in 1967?

Re: No, You can't retire rich at 30 if you sell your startup

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the past is a guide to the future, then the lifestyle we currently define as "upper-middle class" will be redefined as "poverty" and will be available to virtually everyone, including people who can't even be bothered to find a job. For many reasons I doubt that the last few hundred years are going to tell us much about the next hundred. So many critical trends are following exponential curves that can't continue…

I was only looking at the past 40 years, much like the original poster. My edit clarifies this point.

Even in that window of time if the underlying pattern is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bacterial_growth_en.svg

40 years doesn't tell you much about the next 10.

Growth rates in recent times have depended largely on finite resources, many of which are now becoming scarce. It may be that we innovate around all of this, but it's far from certain.

Re: No, You can't retire rich at 30 if you sell your startup

#75

Can we conclude that this is the wistful daydream equivalent of the "Maserati Problem"[1]? I can definitely say that if 30 years we're looking at half a million dollars as a "cost of living adjustment", that world will for the people who don't make that kind of money be Thunderdome. I mean wages have barely kept up with inflation. In the last 40 years (between 1967 and 2007), median wages have only gone up US$10000 (…

How the hell are all of our parents going to fare when you need 500,000 to maintain an upper-middle class lifestyle? If the past 40 years are a guide to the future, then the lifestyle we currently define as "upper-middle class" will be redefined as "poverty" and will be available to virtually everyone, including people who can't even be bothered to find a job. People will continue to complain about the declining midd…

That's not even imaginative enough. We'll be living in space and the rich will own whole solar systems with strong AI civilizations dedicated to working for them and worshipping them. The poor will barely be able to afford immortality and a space ship for going to work. Your great-granddaughter will complain, "Dad, why can't our Spaceballs One even move a diddly little gas giant while those people have whole solar systems to play with?" "Oww... blame our great-grandfather, he spent all his startup money on a measly 4000 sq ft house 200 years ago. Douchebag thinks he'd only live for 90 years."

Re: No, You can't retire rich at 30 if you sell your startup

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got the dichotomy disease. There is no need to go to either extreme. You can belong to a country club and still live within your means. You can certainly drive a fast car and live within your means. Fast cars can be bought for well under $10k, especially in California where a fast car can last for thirty years and more without rusting. Most of the stuff on more expensive cars is just bling, or comfort features…

Anybody can buy a fast car, but few can actually afford to maintain it. A $10K fast car you buy might cost you a good bit of money per year to drive and keep in shape. Especially when it's thirty years old. That's mostly the reason it's only $10K to begin with (and the fact that the market for impractical cars is not too large).

When I lived in the Valley I bought a 1986 Toyota MR2 for about $6k. It had hilarious 80s-era retro styling with angles reminiscent of Tron, and it admittedly has been through an engine and transmission rebuild in the last 24 years, but it still runs great (for the friend I sold it to) and doesn't cost much more to maintain than any car of that age would cost.

It is marginally less fuel efficient than many cars, despite its tiny size, and one does go through tires when one is tearing off the starting line at the entrance ramp to 101. Fast cars are more expensive than regular cars. But not necessarily much so.

Of course, if your definition of a fast car includes the word "Chevy" or, god help you, "Porsche" I take back everything I said. ;)

Re: No, You can't retire rich at 30 if you sell your startup

#78

Can we conclude that this is the wistful daydream equivalent of the "Maserati Problem"[1]? I can definitely say that if 30 years we're looking at half a million dollars as a "cost of living adjustment", that world will for the people who don't make that kind of money be Thunderdome. I mean wages have barely kept up with inflation. In the last 40 years (between 1967 and 2007), median wages have only gone up US$10000 (…

How the hell are all of our parents going to fare when you need 500,000 to maintain an upper-middle class lifestyle? If the past 40 years are a guide to the future, then the lifestyle we currently define as "upper-middle class" will be redefined as "poverty" and will be available to virtually everyone, including people who can't even be bothered to find a job. People will continue to complain about the declining midd…

I think you're making a mistake trying to apply something like Moore's law to a middle class lifestyle. Niche technological advancements don't necessarily translate to higher standards of living. If you're thinking the middle class life will simply scale the way hard drives and TV resolutions do you're in for a big surprise.

I understand that many of the things we think we "need" or want become very relative over time. But if we include basics like needing food, shelter and then add in middle class health care, mobility, security, leisure and luxury, you are talking about an expensive ticket. Yes we have made impressive advancements and maybe someday we'll have things like 100% robotic aggregation/farming and no longer need to think a lot about how we'll get our food. But I don't think the middle class life will simply becoming the default option anytime soon.

What about overpopulation? Increase demand from developing nations for this "middle class"? What about our numerous energy issues? I'm also not sure what your frame of reference is for the past. I must be stuck in the rebound towards an up trend because I know for a fact that a houses were much more affordable for my parents who lived on one carpenters paycheck, even while I make a higher salary after inflation and have the assistance of my spouses income.

Re: No, You can't retire rich at 30 if you sell your startup

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live on U$ 12,000 a year* in a Latin American country (Uruguay), but it isn't a good enough amount to retire on. U$ 30,000 is doable, but not millionaire-ish. You could live quite comfortably and with housemaids and eating out often, but forget about a (good) car or high-end electronic toys (unless you bring them with you from abroad). There are some nice places to retire, but I'm not sure if you wouldn't find it b…

How is living in Uruguay, apart from the money angle? I've heard lots of good stuff about it but never from someone that actually lived there. Most curious!

It's not bad :)

The grass is always greener on the other side, but I'll try to be less biased:

- It's reasonably safe and orderly by South American standards (1)

- Some things are much cheaper, like anything labor-related (like housemaids) (2), or meat (we're the biggest per capita meat consumers in the world, as there are 5 cows per inhabitant)

- Healthcare is in a socialist style (actually Mutualism) (3), and while it's always "on the brink of collapse", it works,

- People are reasonably educated, you'll find enough English-speakers if you come here :) , quite an important "hacker"/IT population (small in numbers, but big relative to the overall 3.000.000 inhabitants).

- OTOH, there's a big marginalized community (similar to the "favelas" in Brazil) that make about 10% of the population, but are the fastest-growing segment. So far, the most striking for an American will be seeing horse-drawn carriages full of litter, with poor children darting to collect the garbage bags of the middle class (needless to say, avoid them or they will relieve them of your wallet or cell phone as well), and beggars at quite a few street lights, or begging on the buses.

- There's a mix of almost-cutting edge (countrywide 3G cell phone and internet access) with old-tech (all the paper-based bureaucracy for example)

- Climate is quite moderate, although it's humid - some people, especially from middle Europe or Canada, think they won't experience the cold or heat. They're wrong. Humid cold and heat are way worse than their dry equivalents. Also, housing is not built to minimize the weather (no double or triple pane windows, bad insulation, bad or no heating in most houses)

There are nice vacation spots if you like beaches, though the water is colder and less clear than in Brazil and way less so than in the Caribbean :) (sand is among the best in the world, though)

- Several first world niceties like modern cars or electronics are out of reach for the masses, because the government likes to tax them out of reach. For smaller electronics, it's cheaper to fly to the US and smuggle them back than to buy them in a store. For larger stuff (say, a LCD TV) you're out of luck. Also, several easy credit options available in the US are not available here.

- Housing in the nicer parts of Montevideo is expensive (on par with some of the not-as-nice parts of American or Canadian cities), as the housing bubble hasn't exploded yet, and credit is not as easily available.

(1) it reminds me of a National Geographic story about the Baltic countries. If you arrived at them from Russia, they seem 1st world and orderly. But if you came to them from Europe, they seem disorderly and third-worldish :P

(2) there are several legal pitfalls, as there are quite cumbersome legal regulations. Most people live in a "grey" economy, complying with most regulations but underreporting or not complying with others (it's quite usual to underreport salaries to the tax collectors)

(3) The best explanation I could come up with after some Googling is: http://www.hmg.gov.uk/media/60217/mutuals.pdf "Mutual organisations do not have external shareholders - they are controlled by their members. Members may be users of the mutual, employees, other stakeholders or a combination of these Mutual organisations are either owned by and run in the interests of existing members, as is the case in building societies, cooperatives and friendly societies, or, as in many public services, owned on behalf of the wider community and run in the interests of the wider community"

Re: No, You can't retire rich at 30 if you sell your startup

#80
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, perhaps you are young and naive like me and don't think about the real cost of kids ;)

Or maybe I do have a child and have figured out that you don't actually have to send them to private school, pay for their college (my parents didn't for me), buy them a new car for their 16th birthday, etc.

Kids are expensive w/o doing all that rich kid stuff. With three kids I have Tae Kwon Do, Abacus, piano, Kumon and they go to public schools. Add on school supplies, clothing, shoes, good will bikes, etc and it gets expensive fast w/o even looking expensive.
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