Earlier quoted context omitted.
Name one use case for cryptocurrencies where they work better than existing technologies and that does not involve buying illegal stuff online. Seriously, I must be writing a comment like this one at least two times a week lately on HN. I keep hearing "blockchain technology is here to stay, think of the possibilities!" and I say that it's already showing its limitations and people are scrambling to find real world us…
Honestly the best use case is actually for the very financial services industry that the crypto community thinks they are supplanting. Distributed ledger with trusted confirmations + quicker and cheaper wires is actually pretty big. It's a rock solid use case that a couple of big banks have openly said they are working on. Of course, it's almost certain that any currency they move will probably end up pegged to a fia…
Fools and their crypto
111–120 of 128 posts
Re: Fools and their crypto
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
Name one use case for cryptocurrencies where they work better than existing technologies and that does not involve buying illegal stuff online. Seriously, I must be writing a comment like this one at least two times a week lately on HN. I keep hearing "blockchain technology is here to stay, think of the possibilities!" and I say that it's already showing its limitations and people are scrambling to find real world us…
How about five? * private transactions: your identity need not be associated with donating to wikileaks or buying a sex toy * irreversible: no chargebacks or transaction reversals * unseizable: protection against civil forfeiture, IRS account seizures for "structuring", etc * remittance: send any amount of funds anywhere in the world with minimum fees with no 3rd party ever having access to funds * exit from corrupt…
In a world where someone will steal your account if you so much as look the other way, this is a good thing?
Because paying taxes is for chumps.
Tell us more about those fees... You want your transaction to happen when?
Replace corrupt monetary policy with corrupt money. Flawless.
Re: Fools and their crypto
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
We aren't there yet. Successful projects are building protocols with the goal of developers using them to build next-gen products that people actually want. Current speculation (a16z, polychain, ...) is that it will take another few years for this rollout to really take effect.
> products that people actually want This part of the process is usually considered one of the first steps in a successful business.
You're absolutely right, of course. However, I'm reminded of this wonderful (recent) quote by Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi:
"Business is actually surprisingly good for everything that the company went through. The part of the business that is not going well is the profitability part. We have some details to work out."
https://www.axios.com/uber-ceo-1516627656-77c68a5a-6d42-4c85...
Re: Fools and their crypto
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, lets. From Crank it up article[1]: "In 1995, from Q1 to Q4, Netscape's revenue went from $5 million to $10 million to $20 million to $40 million." Netscape was formed in April of 1994 so we are talking about 9 months after creation they had revenue of 5mil. First website was launched at the end of December 1990 so less than 4.5 years before. Blockchain is significantly older at this point. [1] https://www.wired.…
And significantly more complex than a 1990's website having a a drastically different and unrefined business model connected to an actual trading vehicle. Try running a startup and let us know how long it takes for the average startup to start bringing in consequential revenue. It's clear there's lots of unfounded disdain for crypto among certain software engineering camps as crypto is a combination of software engin…
Not sure what running startups have to do with it (although have plenty of experience with them too), but comparing average startup with any ICO one is disingenuous. As far as I can tell there is little to show for so far if one ignores companies not aimed at cryptocurrencies ecosystem itself.
But more to the point, it has been 9 years since Bitcoin was released building on ideas that were even older. Tech is more complicated than building website mid-90s (although probably not as much as you seem to believe), but again is not that complicated to excuse lack of compelling products.
I am not saying those will not come, but "early days" is a piss-poor excuse.
I do, however, dislike your use of crypto as for an old fart like me this should be used for cryptography.
Re: Fools and their crypto
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
Name one use case for cryptocurrencies where they work better than existing technologies and that does not involve buying illegal stuff online. Seriously, I must be writing a comment like this one at least two times a week lately on HN. I keep hearing "blockchain technology is here to stay, think of the possibilities!" and I say that it's already showing its limitations and people are scrambling to find real world us…
How about five? * private transactions: your identity need not be associated with donating to wikileaks or buying a sex toy * irreversible: no chargebacks or transaction reversals * unseizable: protection against civil forfeiture, IRS account seizures for "structuring", etc * remittance: send any amount of funds anywhere in the world with minimum fees with no 3rd party ever having access to funds * exit from corrupt…
>private transactions: your identity need not be associated with donating to wikileaks or buying a sex toy
We have to define "private", currently my purchase history is not exactly public even though some trusted entities do have access to it.
In the same way I keep getting conflicting viewpoints about transactions on the blockchain. Are they public or not? I ask because every time I point out that cryptocurrencies are a dream come true for anybody who's trying to evade taxes, launder money or corrupt politicians I always have somebody telling me that it's not true because with enough effort you can track money on the public blockchain. So which one is it?
>irreversible: no chargebacks or transaction reversals
As a consumer this is an obvious negative. As a seller it might also be because people will be more afraid to send money to somebody without reputation. So good for Amazon but bad for the little guy selling home made socks on ebay.
>unseizable: protection against civil forfeiture, IRS account seizures for "structuring", etc
Ah yeah, the "my government has issues so the obvious solution is to get rid of it" line of thought. Maybe you should work on fixing these weird idiosyncrasies instead of trying to find a way around them, because maybe you're being honest but I can assure you that there's a long line of thugs behind you waiting to use your "protection" scheme to evade taxes and regulations. You can't have a working government if you make taxes "opt-out".
>remittance: send any amount of funds anywhere in the world with minimum fees with no 3rd party ever having access to funds
That's only valid if you don't need any guarantees whatsoever (like a pure donation without counterparts or sending money to somebody you trust). If you try to buy something from an untrusted source you'll want a 3rd party to provide arbitration. No chargeback, remember?
As for the "minimum fees" we'll see about that when some cryptocurrency is actually used "at scale" to do this.
>exit from corrupt monetary policies: see Argentina, Venezuela
I can't offer any rebuttal to this but I wonder how much good it'd do. Rich people would be able to exfiltrate their money more easily to other countries and poor people will convert their 0peso into 0BTC. I'd be really curious to read a serious study about how things would've changed in Venezuela if they had switched to BTC before the crisis. I don't really believe in magic bullets, the failings of the Venezuelan economy are multiple and go way beyond a choice of currency.
I can't shake the feeling that if you put money out of the hands of the government you effectively give all the economy power to the rich people and it's effectively harming democracy. You seem to have a very USA-centric point of view (judging by your examples above) so I ask you: when you look at the state of the USA and its government, do you really think "damn, I really wish rich people had more power"?
Re: Fools and their crypto
#116Every few decades, libertarians need to be reminded why regulations exist. Time passes, and people forget why the SEC, FTC, FDA, FDIC, OSHA, child labor laws, et al were even created. Cryptocurrencies created a completely anarchic monetary system, which people have used to layer investment systems on top of. Naturally, low hanging fruit scams and cons have arisen, and some form of governing structure will eventually…
Take wash trading. How can you possibly ban wash trading? To do this you need to verify that identity of seller X != identity of seller Y. Even dismissing currencies that actively prohibit this verification (Monero), how do you possibly accomplish this in a decentralized currency?
Even without the identities issue, who is looking at bitcoin governance and thinking that deciding protocol changes with a decentralized electoral system is going to produce anything but gamesmanship and paralysis. Promising newcomer coins Abc will have the same issues once there's real money at stake.
And yes. Manipulation exist in the traditional monetary system. However, regulations raise the cost of manipulation to prohibitively high levels for most people. And yes, congress is dysfunctional. But underneath the chaos we have a set of fairly well established rules, and changing those rules didn't require forking the currency.
The problems with our economic system are political, not technological. What crypto brings to money is superfluous technology and even worse politics than we already have.
Re: Fools and their crypto
#117It seems like I will continue collecting downvotes on this topic but I will give yet another try. I would not be totally against regulation and government intervention into blockchain space (and any other space as well). In fact, it would be really good for the space have reasonable but friendly regulation which would clean up space from outright scams. Unfortunately, governments usually don't try to came up with rea…
> Which basically says - rich gets richer and you poor little guy is too stupid for participating in potentially highly lucrative deals.
It's more along the lines of having enough money to weather the value of your investments disappearing.
Re: Fools and their crypto
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
> products that people actually want This part of the process is usually considered one of the first steps in a successful business.
> This part of the process is usually considered one of the first steps in a successful business. You're absolutely right, of course. However, I'm reminded of this wonderful (recent) quote by Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi: "Business is actually surprisingly good for everything that the company went through. The part of the business that is not going well is the profitability part. We have some details to work out." http…
People actually want to press a button on their phone and have a car show up and take them somewhere seamlessly. Uber has been doing that since they launched.
Doing it profitably and sustainably is another question. But the basis of the enterprise isn't even a little confusing.
Re: Fools and their crypto
#119Every few decades, libertarians need to be reminded why regulations exist. Time passes, and people forget why the SEC, FTC, FDA, FDIC, OSHA, child labor laws, et al were even created. Cryptocurrencies created a completely anarchic monetary system, which people have used to layer investment systems on top of. Naturally, low hanging fruit scams and cons have arisen, and some form of governing structure will eventually…
No more than repeat offenders remind you of why Gulags exist. In your mind the hypothetical libertarian just doesn't want any regulation because he forgets that regulations have any good impact.
It's simply tone deaf.
> In the end you may end up with something very much looking like a government, where people with connections and leverage in the governing structures get to decide the evolution of the rules, where a few players with disproportionate wealth or hashing power, help elect those people to committee positions. And once again, people will be looking to create systems to escape the defacto control and cronyism imposed on the system.
There are 'good governments' and 'bad governments'. The rich and powerful try to game the system in both of them but there are much more effective in bad govts than in good govts.
So the question is, what separates a society which ends up with good governments (for example western societies) than societies which end up with bad governments (pretty much all the non-western societies).
This is precisely where the argument breaks down. According to libertarians, there is a reason X (whatever that might be) which separates good from bad governments. According to libertarians, that reason is 'economic freedom', the places where good govt exists, there is economic freedom, and places with bad government lacks economic freedom (even dictatorship like Singapore, UAE, or ex-dictatorships like S Korea are far better off than their non-economic free counterparts).
You may disagree what the cause 'X' is (according to alt-right that cause X is genetic-cultural environment, as places with good govt tend to be white westerners and places with bad govt tend to be non-white non-westerners).
But a plain denial of differences between good govts and bad govts is insane.
Re: Fools and their crypto
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
It also shows that this conflation is very, very recent. I assume this is either because some people realized that there is "more than bitcoin" now, so you can't keep saying "bitcoin" and mean all the cryptocurrencies, and they just thought "jeez, cryptocurrency is such a complicated word. Let's just use crypto!" In any case, crypto has been established as short for cryptography for far longer than any of these curre…
However you feel about it, the change is happening. People clearly don't think the ambiguity is as problematic as you do.
Clearly, people do actually care about others trying to coopt well-established language for their often fishy schemes.