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Modern human brain organization emerged only recently

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61–70 of 73 posts

Re: Modern human brain organization emerged only recently

#61
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand, we have Darwin, who straight up wrote a book about why some races are superior [0], and on the other hand we have extremists who take offense even at assessments like "Men are on average stronger than women." For a modern-day Darwin, we have James Watson, the father of genetics, who has some interesting things to say [1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_Species [1] https://en.wikipedia.…

>Personally, I think it is patronizing if not downright deceitful to pretend differences don't exist between isolated demographics, We don't have many isolated demographics (although there are some) both because pre-modern humans were capable of traveling over extremely long distances (i.e. isolation is unlikely) and because humans haven't been around for a particularly long time. Unlike many species humans are surpr…

I said Watson had a biased perspective.

I'm not trying to lay down any sort of narrative, I'm just presenting facts in a neutral light.

The quote you selected is found in the link I provided.

Re: Modern human brain organization emerged only recently

#62
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never actually met someone who was offended by a statement like "on average, men are stronger than women". If you are saying things like that, and people are getting offended, perhaps record yourself and see what other shit you say and how you say it, and maybe you'll see what they are really offended at.

I'm not walking around saying that because I'm not trying to provoke people, but thanks for the unwarranted judgment.

You just did on here, what does "walking around" have to do with it? And if you want me to take you by your words, take me by mine. I also said "If you say...".

If you don't say those things, and the judgement doesn't apply, then don't get offended.

Re: Modern human brain organization emerged only recently

#63
post #56
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand, we have Darwin, who straight up wrote a book about why some races are superior [0], and on the other hand we have extremists who take offense even at assessments like "Men are on average stronger than women." For a modern-day Darwin, we have James Watson, the father of genetics, who has some interesting things to say [1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_Species [1] https://en.wikipedia.…

It is something we will have to grapple with. Cognitive genomics is already starting to confirm very politically incorrect things, such as the the confirmation of a dysgenic trend in Iceland, which has been implied from phenotypic data but career ending to acknowledge: https://www.gwern.net/docs/genetics/selection/2017-kong.pdf This is the tip of the iceberg. Once we have a million genomes tagged with cognitive measu…

> willing to consider technological fixes for unfair distributions of economically valuable allies, such as embryo selection and direct genetic modification

A short story about the consequences of normalized post-birth genetic alteration: http://compellingsciencefiction.com/stories/thelittlegods.ht...

A short description of the pre-birth and post-birth conditioning present in Aldous Huxley's famous Brave New World: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World#Fordism_and_so...

The Last Book In The Universe takes a different approach to the issue. A cataclysmic event called The Big Shake destroys society, and only a small group of surviving scientists hidden underground were able to genetically modify their offspring to be superior to the rest of the world. This creates an immensely divisive class system, and the genetically altered humans live and govern separately from the rest of the planet.

This will not be an easy problem to solve, and there is no telling what the future effects will be. But it seems precise genetic alteration is the inevitable holy grail, doesn't it?

Re: Modern human brain organization emerged only recently

#64
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not walking around saying that because I'm not trying to provoke people, but thanks for the unwarranted judgment.

You just did on here, what does "walking around" have to do with it? And if you want me to take you by your words, take me by mine. I also said "If you say...". If you don't say those things, and the judgement doesn't apply, then don't get offended.

I'm not offended, even though you're trying to offend me.

Just a suggestion, consider dropping the snarky, aggressive attitude and actually contribute to the discussion I initiated, or move on.

Re: Modern human brain organization emerged only recently

#65
post #57
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If our brain structures were different (at least in so far as the organization or distribution of cells within the cranium and not the external measurement) then one would expect adopted children from places where brains are very different to perform differently then peers in new locations. Yet I remember reading a study that showed that black children from Africa adopted by white parents in Germany performed at the…

It could also be that differences in academic performance (I'm assuming academic is the performance you were referring to in your comment) are not accurate metrics for identifying the effects of differential brain organization. In scenarios like that, it's also difficult to control for the impact of different level of support for students in academic matters. For example, focused support for under-performing students…

My rambling brain confounded a few studies I had read.

My mistake. I was incorrect about the study being related to adoptions. It was actually something interesting that happened in Germany. I had read an environmental interpretation of the Eyferth Study: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyferth_study

Re: Modern human brain organization emerged only recently

#66
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just did on here, what does "walking around" have to do with it? And if you want me to take you by your words, take me by mine. I also said "If you say...". If you don't say those things, and the judgement doesn't apply, then don't get offended.

I'm not offended, even though you're trying to offend me. Just a suggestion, consider dropping the snarky, aggressive attitude and actually contribute to the discussion I initiated, or move on.

I think I did contribute, but you don't see my point, or you don't think it's important enough to comment on. Consider me "moved on" :)

Re: Modern human brain organization emerged only recently

#67
post #48

It's interesting to note that a technological civilization has occurred only in the past 200 years. Homo sapiens have been around on the planet for a long time so why is it only happening now? I suspect that easy access to large amounts of food, more time available for mental activities and the easy spread of information have given us advantages our ancestors did not have despite the apparent similarities in our brai…

Depends what you consider technology, I would say.

Plant and animal domestication. A heavy hand axe that gave homo erectus a more dangerous clank than a big ram? Fish traps? Hydraulic engineering?

Yuval Noah Harari puts the start around the same time as this article's modern brain, the palaeolithic revolution. The point at which cultural evolution takes over and replaces biological evolution as the driving force of change.

But yeah, we have a ton of wasted potential. Nutrition, education, information and (uncomfortably) inbreeding along with the many types of unavailable opportunities...

Re: Modern human brain organization emerged only recently

#68
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not offended, even though you're trying to offend me. Just a suggestion, consider dropping the snarky, aggressive attitude and actually contribute to the discussion I initiated, or move on.

I think I did contribute, but you don't see my point, or you don't think it's important enough to comment on. Consider me "moved on" :)

> record yourself and see what other shit you say and how you say it, and maybe you'll see what they are really offended at

That's not a point, it's an Ad Hominem.

From Wikipedia: A fallacious argumentative strategy whereby an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself

And no, I didn't think it was worth commenting on because it's one of my most-encountered fallacies and it just gets tiring.

Re: Modern human brain organization emerged only recently

#69
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I did contribute, but you don't see my point, or you don't think it's important enough to comment on. Consider me "moved on" :)

> record yourself and see what other shit you say and how you say it, and maybe you'll see what they are really offended at That's not a point, it's an Ad Hominem. From Wikipedia: A fallacious argumentative strategy whereby an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of th…

Why are you fixated on the part we agreed doesn't apply to you? You still miss my point. I'll try one more time. I admit, I don't have a way with words, and I feel I should thank you for your patience, but it seems like you aren't trying to understand me...

Disclaimer, "you" is not YOU, it's whoever says non-offensive things, then complains that people get offended.

You said:

> we have extremists who take offense even at assessments like "Men are on average stronger than women."

If you say something like "on average men are stronger than women" and they get offended, then YOU are the problem. You are a poor communicator. No one says things like that unless they are trying to make a point. What is the point you are trying to make? Are you saying men are therefore better at some activity that strength is involved in? That's obviously not necessarily true.

They are getting offended at the WAY you "teach" them, the bigger point you are trying to make by citing obvious drivel. Perhaps, linking pages to wikipedia, as if they've never heard of "ad hominem" or something. That's why you offend people. Not cuz the facts are right, but because the messenger is a prick.

And again, if this isn't you, don't be an extremist and get offended at stupid shit.

Re: Modern human brain organization emerged only recently

#70
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> record yourself and see what other shit you say and how you say it, and maybe you'll see what they are really offended at That's not a point, it's an Ad Hominem. From Wikipedia: A fallacious argumentative strategy whereby an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of th…

Why are you fixated on the part we agreed doesn't apply to you? You still miss my point. I'll try one more time. I admit, I don't have a way with words, and I feel I should thank you for your patience, but it seems like you aren't trying to understand me... Disclaimer, "you" is not YOU, it's whoever says non-offensive things, then complains that people get offended. You said: > we have extremists who take offense eve…

Fixated on what? That sentence was half of your comment.

> If you say something like "on average men are stronger than women" and they get offended, then YOU are the problem. You are a poor communicator. No one says things like that unless they are trying to make a point. What is the point you are trying to make? Are you saying men are therefore better at some activity that strength is involved in?

You're misunderstanding the nature of the sentiment. It's silly and provocative to go around saying "Hey did you know African descendants statistically make better runners?" or "Hey did you know women are weaker than men?", for the same reasons you listed.

But scientists who make statistically valid claims like this are often lambasted, and while some of them (Watson) are trying to use these discoveries to strengthen their biases, many more are not.

And there are useful things to come out of this. For example, the notion that women tend to be more emotional than men. Or, put in another way, that men tend to be more emotionally reserved than women.

We could ignore this fact, or we could call it toxic masculinity, or we could actually take it into consideration when dealing with people we don't know well by making statistical assumptions that guide our behavior. We could have more positive intersexual interactions keeping in mind the statistical strengths and weaknesses of each gender, and not agitating or playing into them.

> They are getting offended at the WAY you "teach" them . . . Perhaps, linking pages to wikipedia, as if they've never heard of "ad hominem" or something . . . That's why you offend people. Not cuz the facts are right, but because the messenger is a prick

I didn't link to Wikipedia, I provided a relevant context. Because people who truly understand Ad Hominem and its dangers are careful not to fall into that trap. But you did, and you are doing so again several times with the above quote. I'm not being a prick at all by pointing out your logical fallacy, even if it makes you feel embarrassed or momentarily ignorant. Being corrected is the price we pay for engaging in these discussions, and the one doing the correcting is not a prick for doing so.

Orthogonal to the matter at hand, I have indeed taken on a certain negative attitude towards you in my arguments because you started off the thread by attacking my character and insulting me, accusing me of doing something I never claimed to do. This conversation started off on the wrong foot and if you had wanted me to be nicer, you should not have begun by dishing out an Ad Hominem.

The entire position of my discussion in this overall thread has been one of rational conservatism, I've even spoken against extremism, so to imply that I am being extremist in such a way that you can back out if you need to and claim that I misunderstood you is only furthering to create animosity in this discussion.

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