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U.S. Regulators to Subpoena Crypto Exchange Bitfinex, Tether

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Re: U.S. Regulators to Subpoena Crypto Exchange Bitfinex, Tether

#161
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What use is a currency (or commodity!) that you can't convert into a good or service? It seems like a fundamental problem if the theoretical advantages of a currency are lost the instant you try to use it to buy something. Otherwise we're just wasting gigawatts of electricity to print Monopoly money.

The assumption has always been that cryptocurrency driven markets would emerge completely decoupled from states and their systems of financial regulation, and so conversion would be neither necessary, nor desired. Everything you could possibly want to buy, legal or illegal, would be payable through the crypto market. Cryptocurrencies were supposed to undermine fiat, or at least render it unnecessary, barring taxes, n…

It took a serious tin hat warrior to actually believe that line. "If everybody in the world instantly switches over to my new currency overnight everything will be awesome!" That's so far divorced from reality only pure mathematicians could love it.

Not to mention it would never work, the blockchain has way too much overhead (many many orders of magnitude) to support an entire world's worth of exchanges every day. There literally isn't enough electricity in the world. People would have to do all of their transfers on third party exchanges that undermine all of the crypto guarantees of the currency in the first place. They're no better than putting your fiat currency in a bank run by criminals that have no respect for laws. And I'm not talking euphemistically about regular bankers here, I'm talking about full up scam artists. I mean why not, it's not like the law is going to get you. There are no pesky regulations to get in the way. No annoying insurance adjusters breathing down your neck. You have total freedom to scam everybody all day long.

Re: U.S. Regulators to Subpoena Crypto Exchange Bitfinex, Tether

#162
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tether is supposedly pegged to USD. Traders use it to store assets while avoiding crypto price volatility without having to deal with fiat currency.

How is not having to deal with fiat currency an advantage for traders ? They still need to do cost-basis accounting for taxes, and this just shifts their risk of to . I understand how this benefits exchanges (Because they can claim they don't need to follow KYC), but how does it benefit their users ? They'll also eventually need to convert USDT into USD - which they can withdraw. If you have an exchange that you can…

> It's like if the NYSE only allowed you to cash out in scrip. I understand how this benefits them, but how does it benefit me?

It doesn't benefit you, as you're left holding a bag of useless scrip if there's a big crash.

Which is precisely why tether is such a cause for concern. Well, except for crypto fanatics that call anything perceived as negative as baseless FUD.

Re: U.S. Regulators to Subpoena Crypto Exchange Bitfinex, Tether

#163

This is good news for quality cryptocurrency organizations. Bitfinex has problems, so does Tether and it's good to see bad actors in the crypto world getting weeded out, called out and put down.

C'mon, say the "This is good for Bitcoin!" thing.

Yeah all news are good news for greedy Bitcoin hodlers !

Re: U.S. Regulators to Subpoena Crypto Exchange Bitfinex, Tether

#164
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tether is supposedly pegged to USD. Traders use it to store assets while avoiding crypto price volatility without having to deal with fiat currency.

How is not having to deal with fiat currency an advantage for traders ? They still need to do cost-basis accounting for taxes, and this just shifts their risk of to . I understand how this benefits exchanges (Because they can claim they don't need to follow KYC), but how does it benefit their users ? They'll also eventually need to convert USDT into USD - which they can withdraw. If you have an exchange that you can…

It's still slow and tedious to move USD between exchanges, and likely raises a lot of flags with your bank.

Being able to move USD between banks as fast and frictionlessly as you can move crypto makes it easier to take advantage of price differences on different exchanges. The tethers themselves are also tradeable with people who may or may not pay taxes or trade on KYC-compliant exchanges.

Re: U.S. Regulators to Subpoena Crypto Exchange Bitfinex, Tether

#165

Its shocking how they have been allowed to continue printing "fake money" for so long. There were rumours going around long before christmas. Its about time this 'scam' was exposed.

I'm not very familiar with this world, but that seems fast. I always assumed the world of financial crime enforcement moved like molasses. When I started hearing those rumors I just assumed it'd be months after the crash before the feds showed up. Maybe I'm just cynical. But I 100% agree, its about time.

They do move like molasses.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Molasses_Flood

Re: U.S. Regulators to Subpoena Crypto Exchange Bitfinex, Tether

#166
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can exchange USDT for fiat, on demand, for exactly 1 USD/USDT, but only at Bitfinex My understanding is this isn't the case. My understanding is Bitfinex will take your USD and convert to USDT which you can then use to buy crypto. But it won't take your USDT and turn it back into dollars. In fact, my understanding is the only way to turn USDT back into USD is either directly through Kraken or indirectly through…

No, you can convert USDT directly to USD. However, Bitfinex can only wire you that USD to a Taiwanese bank account. I can't verify that they actually will wire it, but this is what they claim. And I assume if they were refusing to make these wires to people who had Taiwanese bank accounts, people would be pointing it out.

My understanding is that their terms of service say that they have no legal obligation to do so, regardless of where you have a bank account...

Re: U.S. Regulators to Subpoena Crypto Exchange Bitfinex, Tether

#167
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can exchange USDT for fiat, on demand, for exactly 1 USD/USDT, but only at Bitfinex My understanding is this isn't the case. My understanding is Bitfinex will take your USD and convert to USDT which you can then use to buy crypto. But it won't take your USDT and turn it back into dollars. In fact, my understanding is the only way to turn USDT back into USD is either directly through Kraken or indirectly through…

> But it won't take your USDT and turn it back into dollars. that's... unlikely. mainly because if that were true, nobody would want to sell anything at bitfinex, and cryptocurrency prices there would skyrocket. this happened at mtgox when they halted withdraws, BTC prices skyrocketed there.

Yes, that's exactly what many people think is going to happen, and in fact there's already a small but persistent spread in BTC prices between exchanges that price them in USDT (like Bitfinex) and those that use actual USD (like GDAX).

Re: U.S. Regulators to Subpoena Crypto Exchange Bitfinex, Tether

#168

So, how does this work legally? Bitfinex isn't a U.S. based company and doesn't work with U.S. citizens. The article says where it's based is unknown. Does the CFTC have the authority to subpoena them? Is it because they're claiming Tether is USD pegged, so they gain authority because of their use of the dollar? Honestly just a curious question. (I'm not looking for snarky answers to the effect of "world police".)

Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them?

William Shakespeare, Henry IV, Part I

There are actually two issues here: Firstly, on what basis, under US law, does the CTFC have the authority to issue a subpoena, and secondly, whether, under international law or treaty, it has any power to compel compliance. The link in sna1l's post has something on both issues.

Re: U.S. Regulators to Subpoena Crypto Exchange Bitfinex, Tether

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where I also get confused. So far the reasons I could come up with are: - the exchange got bought out silently and is now owned/controlled by the people behind tether - the exchange got paid to use tether (for example 0.5% of the volume as incentive) - the exchange holds a part of tether's fiat as guarantee - the exchange is run by people who are inexperienced in appraising counterparty risk - the exchange is…

What risks does the exchange incur from allowing the trade of tethers? Exchanges make their money from people trading--not by holding their own reserves and betting on their values. If Tether value drops to zero, anyone holding Tethers would be upset, but exchanges would just have been profiting from all the trades necessary to bring that value down to zero.

IIRC some exchanges don’t make it clear you’re trading USDT, not USD. If Tether were to implode users might be able to sue the exchange to try to recover the USD value.

Re: U.S. Regulators to Subpoena Crypto Exchange Bitfinex, Tether

#170

This is good news for quality cryptocurrency organizations. Bitfinex has problems, so does Tether and it's good to see bad actors in the crypto world getting weeded out, called out and put down.

In the long term, perhaps, but in the short term there's going to be MtGox-or-worse level carnage in the markets if Bitfinex/USDT is exposed as a scam and people start panic selling to cash out.
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