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'Unsolvable' exam question leaves Chinese students flummoxed

bbc.com

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Re: 'Unsolvable' exam question leaves Chinese students flummoxed

#31

Post by brador »

bcaa7f3a8bbc wrote: post #26
ensignavenger wrote: post #5

Growing up in the US, we used to have questions like this on math exams. The correct answer is something to the effect of "Not enough information to solve this problem". Of course we had practice questions where that was the case before the exam, so it wasn't a surprise or anything... but it was standard practice.

I certainly sure that they've read something about this in the U.S, and they thought it would be a good idea to try the same thing. I'll bet it was a direct copy from the U.S.

The problem is sometimes mistakes happen in exam questions, from simple typos to impossible questions, etc. How is the student to know that this was a genuine question vs. a mistake?

Re: 'Unsolvable' exam question leaves Chinese students flummoxed

#32

Post by tzs »

wizardforhire wrote: post #25

This is my favorite unsolvable exam question! (Single page pdf) http://nuclear.ucdavis.edu/~tgutierr/files/sml2.pdf

That's not unsolvable: https://www.symmetrymagazine.org/article/the-deconstructed-s...

See also: https://www.sciencealert.com/this-is-what-the-standard-model...

Re: 'Unsolvable' exam question leaves Chinese students flummoxed

#33

Post by Harvey-Specter »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #30
Harvey-Specter wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the article. The question is stated to be > "If a ship had 26 sheep and 10 goats onboard, how old is the ship's captain?" What 'clue' did I miss? The only other information is some speculation from a Weibo commenter who thinks that 26 sheep + 10 goats = 7700kgs. I supposed you could argue that these 5th grade students should know the minimum age required to have a commercial boat licence, but I couldn't tell y…

Scroll past the ads. There's lots more.

No, there isn't. Please quote what other information is provided.

Re: 'Unsolvable' exam question leaves Chinese students flummoxed

#34

Post by JoeAltmaier »

brador wrote: post #31
bcaa7f3a8bbc wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly sure that they've read something about this in the U.S, and they thought it would be a good idea to try the same thing. I'll bet it was a direct copy from the U.S.

The problem is sometimes mistakes happen in exam questions, from simple typos to impossible questions, etc. How is the student to know that this was a genuine question vs. a mistake?

How can it matter? If its unanswerable, its unanswerable for everyone.

Re: 'Unsolvable' exam question leaves Chinese students flummoxed

#35

Post by JoeAltmaier »

Harvey-Specter wrote: post #33
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scroll past the ads. There's lots more.

No, there isn't. Please quote what other information is provided.

The other information, is the reasonable assumption that there is a minimum age limit for getting a license, and an apprenticeship for larger vessels. As mentioned. Even if you don't know the numbers, you can sketch out that thought process for an answer. Not all algebra is done with constants.

In fact my sister ran the data systems for a large trucking company. Her interview questions included "how many ping pong balls will fit in a semi-truck trailer?" She was looking for any kind of process to arrive at an answer. Most folks just flailed around, helpless because the question didn't include the answer in it (like so many test questions in school).

Re: 'Unsolvable' exam question leaves Chinese students flummoxed

#36

Post by kk_cz »

This sounds like a messed up variant of an actual solvable old riddle that goes something like:

"Imagine that that you are the captain of a ship, there are 26 sheep and 10 goat on board... "

... go on for about 2 minutes talking about how the ship stops in different ports and how number of respective animals change... Add another animals as well, make the listener assume that they need to keep the count in their head...

"Now in the final destination all of the animal get off the ship. How old is the ship's captain?"

Re: 'Unsolvable' exam question leaves Chinese students flummoxed

#37

Post by bbctol »

mannykannot wrote: post #29
ensignavenger wrote: post #5

Growing up in the US, we used to have questions like this on math exams. The correct answer is something to the effect of "Not enough information to solve this problem". Of course we had practice questions where that was the case before the exam, so it wasn't a surprise or anything... but it was standard practice.

Then there are the questions that, at first sight, do not seem to have all the information, yet they do. Consider the one that opens this article: http://www.solipsys.co.uk/new/NapkinRingVersusSphericalCap.h...

What's interesting about that problem is that (for me, at least) knowing that that is enough information to solve it makes solving it a lot easier. If I was just told to make as much headway as I could, I'd get stuck on some tricky geometry, but once you're told that the answer is a single number, not in terms of any variables, the method of solution became clear.

Re: 'Unsolvable' exam question leaves Chinese students flummoxed

#38

Post by tzs »

RubenSandwich wrote: post #4

It sounds like the old programming interview questions: "Why are sewer covers round?", etc. They sound like they promote critical thinking, but really they just confuse the applicants. If you want to know how someone thinks, ask them to solve a problem step by step.

> "Why are sewer covers round?"

Because sewer access holes are round.

Re: 'Unsolvable' exam question leaves Chinese students flummoxed

#39

Post by watwut »

Jare wrote: post #23
watwut wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking them to solve a problem step by step is great to learn whether that person is good at explaining the solution step by step. It is not about internal thought process you use to come up with solution.

I strongly disagree. If that happens then the interviewer is not doing their job. You don't ask the applicant to solve and then explain, you ask them to solve and think aloud while they do it. If this doesn't come naturally to the candidate, which is totally fine, you must ask questions, suggest doubts, propose alternatives or request clarifications to encourage thinking aloud. If you realize the candidate already kn…

I was always pretty good at these questions, honestly enjoyed them and I would never tell you my actual thought process. Of course I would answer questions (which are basically fun side quests), but especially if you interrupt me with them, you are not getting anything remotely resembling my thought process. You have me answering your questions and my thinking+behavior are heavily influenced by them and by what I see in socially appropriate behavior.
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