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With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit

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Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit

#441
post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several important things here: 1) All the main German federal parties support the EU. 2) The migration concerns are about asylum seekers rather than EU citizens, because (as I have discovered by trying) German bureaucracy is effective at keeping out speculative job seekers like me. 3) The UK government keeps passing surveillance laws which violate the UK implementation of the European declaration of human r…

What do you mean by "main"? The third largest party in Germany wants to leave the euro. That's why the government collapsed - their new electoral success. Is third largest party not "main"? W.R.T. surveillance, yes that sucks, but spy agencies have never been accountable to the law in any country as far as I can tell. German BND is exactly the same: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Intelligence_Service_(... To t…

I’m on a phone so this is only going to be a limited reply:

“Main” - literally all other parties with seats have refused to be in a coalition with AfD. Also, unless they’ve changed position since I last looked (they might, as I don’t look at them often), they are currently anti- rather than anti-EU.

Further, the EU’s strategic goals from Brexit is damage limitation and clear resolution. I think you’re mixing up their goal for Brexit itself with the potential post-Brexit futures for the EU, which I think they should be considering about now-ish.

As for the EU’s attitude to compromise, I wish to point out that not only did the EU compromise on budget contributions with Thatcher; not only did Cameron get compromises from the EU right before the referendum; not only did the EU compromise and allow opt-outs on the Euro, Schengen, defence (Denmark’s the only one who wanted that), partial opt-outs of the charter of fundamental rights (“lol” UK and Poland), and something I don’t understand beyond guessing from the name called “area of freedom, security and justice”; in addition to all that, the _point_ of the EU is compromise between member states.

Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit

#442
post #393
post #67

Tuesday, this was the theme at my toastmaster's debate club[1] - I got stuck arguing that social media doesn't make you depressed. And... my problem with my argument wasn't that it was untrue, but that it was kinda mean. I don't feel jealous of the lives of almost anyone I went to high school with; quite the opposite. A lot of them post "racist memes with spelling mistakes" - which is sad on many levels; If nothing e…

Note that the article is on teens, an age group where as a general rule everyone is super hormonal and therefore emotionally changable and hyper aware of social status. You're trying to look at this through the eyes of an adult, presumably one with a reasonably good career judging by other comments you've made.

I think this is likely the most powerful factor among the possible explanations given here, and I'm not sure why your comment did not provoke more discussion.

Saying teens are "hyper-aware of social status" is not going far enough: the teenage years are a period of social awakening in which we reach new levels of understanding, empathy, and theory of mind.

From a physical perspective a lot of teenage behaviour can be attributed to various brain structures developing at different rates (specifically, structures associated with emotions developing quicker than the structures associated with rational inhibitions).

Mentally speaking, a lot of teenage development is about the brain growing and "recalibrating" to deal with the new sensations this growth brings.

It is not a great leap from there to expect that social media, with their hyper-optimised feedback-loops, are capable of greatly disturbing this process.

Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit

#443
post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what if life objectively has no meaning? You can only experience it through your own subjective viewpoint, so why not find something that is subjectively meaningful to you?

And there lies the problem. That means your lack of existence is on par with anything else. So you can find something random meaningful to you or poof just end it early. Usually this leads to drugs first and not outright suicide, but it is still nonetheless quite harmful to the individual.

I think you missed my point... your lack of existence is on par with anything else, to some objective observer. You are not an objective observer. You can choose to care about yourself. You just have to accept the trade off that caring about something means there will inevitably be some pain to go along with it too when things don't work out the way you want.

Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It must have been discomforting that your sweet girl had become a woman with thoughts and opinions differed to yours.

> had become a woman with thoughts and opinions differed to yours. If your daughter came home from college a neo-nazi would you say the same? What if lots of your neighbors sons and daughters were also coming home from college neo-nazis? I'm not so sure you would agree that they had grown up and developed their own opinions.

Yeah but there's a difference between going to college and becoming leftist and going to a trailer park and becoming a neo-nazi.

Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit

#445
post #405
post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans focus on what they look at, compounding into a perspective, belief, and actions. You can’t work to think nothing is of any consequence and simultaneously work to build anything of value (family, friendships, business, intellect, etc). Nihilism is the abolishment of value systems. Nothing matters. Building things of value requires a system to evaluate value.

No, nihilism is the denial of any intrinsic value, we are still all free to make up and agree on our own values if we want, but it would be because we decided to, as untethered things in a meaningless expanse.

Ah I see so deciding, as in to act as though something is intrinsically true. Is it just me that these things so often seem like arguing about semantics? Or are we talking more about weight (extrinsic) vs. mass (intrinsic)?

Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is ridiculous. It's not. It's just your daily anti-facebook/social media propaganda. Every day there is something about the "evils of social media". It's the new gangsta rap or violent video games. The news media spreads fear in order to sell ads. It wasn't too long ago when the news media hyped up violent videos to sell ads. Violent video games were blamed for everything from school shootings to depression to…

I never bought into this argument that gangsta rap, violent video games, porn, etc have NO effect on our society. You, yourself mentioned ads in your comment. What is an ad but a type of media? And yet, ads are so effective that they are basically the backbone of many of the largest tech companies in the world. Clearly media DOES affect our society. It may not be as simple as "listen to gangsta rap -> commit the crim…

> I never bought into this argument that gangsta rap, violent video games, porn, etc have NO effect on our society.

I never argued that. So you are building a straw man. Of course everything has an "effect". But it didn't bring society down. That's the point. It isn't the cause of all of societies ills. If the media, people like you and others were right, then society would have collapsed a long time ago. It hasn't.

> You, yourself mentioned ads in your comment. What is an ad but a type of media? And yet, ads are so effective that they are basically the backbone of many of the largest tech companies in the world.

Sure. But ads are media specifically engineered to influence you in a particular manner. Gangsta rap, violent video games, porn, etc are meant to entertain. But I agree, all media influences.

> If this wasn't possible, advertising wouldn't be one of the largest industries in the world.

Once again, I'm not denying that media has influence. Advertising, news media, entertainment, movies, etc all influence to some degree. My point was about the scaremongering and scapegoating of certain things and how overblown it is and how people do it for money and influence.

Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> had become a woman with thoughts and opinions differed to yours. If your daughter came home from college a neo-nazi would you say the same? What if lots of your neighbors sons and daughters were also coming home from college neo-nazis? I'm not so sure you would agree that they had grown up and developed their own opinions.

Yeah but there's a difference between going to college and becoming leftist and going to a trailer park and becoming a neo-nazi.

> Yeah but there's a difference between going to college and becoming leftist

There is a difference between becoming leftist and becoming consumed with hatred and rage towards people who disagree with you politically.

Especially when those people have worked tremendously hard to support and care for you.

Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit

#448
post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "main"? The third largest party in Germany wants to leave the euro. That's why the government collapsed - their new electoral success. Is third largest party not "main"? W.R.T. surveillance, yes that sucks, but spy agencies have never been accountable to the law in any country as far as I can tell. German BND is exactly the same: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Intelligence_Service_(... To t…

I’m on a phone so this is only going to be a limited reply: “Main” - literally all other parties with seats have refused to be in a coalition with AfD. Also, unless they’ve changed position since I last looked (they might, as I don’t look at them often), they are currently anti- € rather than anti- EU . Further, the EU’s strategic goals from Brexit is damage limitation and clear resolution. I think you’re mixing up t…

Indeed, as I said above:

> The third largest party in Germany wants to leave the euro

I presume they feel they have to leave the euro before there is an option of leaving the EU.

It's true that other parties refuse to be in coalition with the AfD. This is a bad move on their part. It doesn't make them not a main party though. Especially because the other parties have also been refusing to be in coalitions with each other too.

Right now German politics is the most disastrous in Europe - all the political leaders hate each other, all have publicly trashed each other, all have been refusing to work together and yet Merkel and her buddies continue to rule as if nothing had happened. It's taking months to form a government because they're trying to figure out which party-destroying, soul-sucking coalition is least unacceptable to them and the voters.

We will have to disagree on the EU's approach to compromise. Yes, it compromised with Thatcher back in the 1980's but that was a different time. The EU was much smaller and its institutions felt much less powerful, so compromise and teamwork was much more important back then. As the EU has grown so have its ambitions and the character of the project has changed. The modern EU is not the same organisation that Thatcher dealt with.

That can be seen in recent events. Cameron was given nothing at all and told to pretend it was some massive sacrifice by other leaders. The British public easily saw through that instantly which is why virtually nobody in the remain campaign referred to his "deal" ever again. A compromise would have been the UK suspending unlimited immigration from the EU. It was made clear that such a thing was never going to be on offer and they thought it was insane to even ask.

As for the opt-outs ... good luck keeping them in the event of a remain vote! The EU sees "opt outs" as some horrible nasty legacy thing that they regret ever happened, not as a basic part of negotiation. Even their phrasing shows what they truly think: Germany and Germans like to refer to them as "special privileges"! I have German friends and debated Brexit with one of them once, that's how she called them and I'm not surprised, they call it "extrawürst" in their language - extra sausage. Deep down Germans know that the EU is an undesirable future, but feel they have to suffer through it anyway for the greater good (elimination of Germany as a country and transference of German pride to Europe, a new country free of the horrible history of their own).

Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit

#449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but there's a difference between going to college and becoming leftist and going to a trailer park and becoming a neo-nazi.

> Yeah but there's a difference between going to college and becoming leftist There is a difference between becoming leftist and becoming consumed with hatred and rage towards people who disagree with you politically. Especially when those people have worked tremendously hard to support and care for you.

"I hate oppression" and "I hate ethnicities" are still 2 very different things to bring home. That's a very false equivalency.

Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit

#450

They did a study using Facebook. But I'm more curious about Instagram. "Look at all these rich beautiful people with millions of followers sailing around the world on their yachts." Ten minutes on Instagram is enough to fill any sane person with existential dread and bring about severe depression.

For my son (17 y.o.) it is online games and phone use in general. He has - I hope - mild depression, which - I believe - is caused by his online habits. His mom and I thought taking his PC away from him would fix it. But then he falls into school-sleep cycle, that looks like full-blown depression. Yes, his grades are affected and in not a good way. What works for now is to participate in his life with him. As of now…

When I was 17, I spent the entire year playing Leaugue of Legends, I wasn't on a good period of my life, but league helped me cope.

I think that taking it away from me would have made things worse instead of me suddenly becoming very good socially. Next year, I went to college, met new people and stopped caring about League.

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