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UK mass digital surveillance regime ruled unlawful

theguardian.com

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Re: UK mass digital surveillance regime ruled unlawful

#51

Post by Cthulhu_ »

turc1656 wrote: post #42

"Yet again a UK court has ruled the government’s extreme mass surveillance regime unlawful. This judgement tells ministers in crystal clear terms that they are breaching the public’s human rights." So the question then remains...where are the handcuffs?! I ask this question constantly when it comes to government wrongdoing and there is almost never anyone charged with anything. If the government has been acting in a…

You kinda hint at the answer in your post already - you keep referring to "the government", but who? Is there one or a few people responsible for directing others to perform the unlawful surveillance? Or are they too protected by some mechanic? The legal state being "unclear" probably also means that those people can't face judgment for continuing doing it while the judges were still out.

Re: UK mass digital surveillance regime ruled unlawful

#53

Post by Cthulhu_ »

benevol wrote: post #29

What we have learned thanks to Snowden is this: You can never trust your government. Mass surveillance was conducted illegally before and continues to this day. Does anyone really think some "law" will change this?

We already knew that though - anything Snowden published was just proof of what pretty much everyone already suspected was happening and/or possible.

Re: UK mass digital surveillance regime ruled unlawful

#54

Post by ninkendo »

skrause wrote: post #3
dm319 wrote: post #2

Can anyone point to countries which are not going down this same route? In my head Europe is doing better with protecting privacy, but maybe that's just an impression. Canada? Not Australia. Japan?

Here is a good overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_and_survei...

I took one look at that article and the fact that the U.S. is literally painted the same color as China as having an equal amount of internet censorship would be hilarious if it weren’t so egregiously misleading.

There’s internet censorship and there’s China. Nobody else is in the same league.

The only explanation I can think of is if censorship and surveillance are just being casually lumped together, but people understand that they’re not synonyms, right? Right?

Re: UK mass digital surveillance regime ruled unlawful

#56

Post by Beltiras »

gnocchi wrote: post #37
benevol wrote: post #29

What we have learned thanks to Snowden is this: You can never trust your government. Mass surveillance was conducted illegally before and continues to this day. Does anyone really think some "law" will change this?

Good point, but if we can't rely on the law to help us what will be left? I wonder if one can make a request for information (Freedom of Information Act) about data personally held from the government?

There were cases in the States where a defendant tried to subpoena records from the meta-data collection saying it would exonerate him from the accusation. I can't find how the motion was ruled on with some light Googling. Anyone remember?

Re: UK mass digital surveillance regime ruled unlawful

#57

Post by Cthulhu_ »

nkkollaw wrote: post #36

What is the real reason behind surveillance? The government(s)'s excuse is terrorism, but terrorism in Europe doesn't kill a big enough amount of people to justify these drastic measures. I would argue also that no one has proven that it's efficient at preventing terrorist attacks. There must be a reason, I don't get it. Is it just because governments can, so they do it? It is to create the basis for some initiative…

> I would argue also that no one has proven that it's efficient at preventing terrorist attacks.

What if arrests in terrorist investigations are kept under wraps though? If the public would hear of thwarted terrorist attacks on a regular basis, either they'd feel more and more unsafe - that is, the terrorists win - or the terrorists find out about other cells and find ways to circumvent detection.

Re: UK mass digital surveillance regime ruled unlawful

#58

Post by Cthulhu_ »

ninkendo wrote: post #54
skrause wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a good overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_and_survei...

I took one look at that article and the fact that the U.S. is literally painted the same color as China as having an equal amount of internet censorship would be hilarious if it weren’t so egregiously misleading. There’s internet censorship and there’s China. Nobody else is in the same league. The only explanation I can think of is if censorship and surveillance are just being casually lumped together, but people und…

They are closely related though. Mass surveillance, and/or the loss of privacy online, has a chilling effect - effectively censorship.

Either your government blocks / censors your er, controversial statements, or you're afraid to post your controversial statements because the government is watching you. Same effect.

Re: UK mass digital surveillance regime ruled unlawful

#59

Post by lucb1e »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #51
turc1656 wrote: post #42

"Yet again a UK court has ruled the government’s extreme mass surveillance regime unlawful. This judgement tells ministers in crystal clear terms that they are breaching the public’s human rights." So the question then remains...where are the handcuffs?! I ask this question constantly when it comes to government wrongdoing and there is almost never anyone charged with anything. If the government has been acting in a…

You kinda hint at the answer in your post already - you keep referring to "the government", but who? Is there one or a few people responsible for directing others to perform the unlawful surveillance? Or are they too protected by some mechanic? The legal state being "unclear" probably also means that those people can't face judgment for continuing doing it while the judges were still out.

Well somebody or some bodies stood for the law and approved it. They needn't all go to jail or it would become a neat implement for beheading a government, but allowing them to create such laws without any repercussions is wrong.

Re: UK mass digital surveillance regime ruled unlawful

#60

Post by dalbasal »

turc1656 wrote: post #42

"Yet again a UK court has ruled the government’s extreme mass surveillance regime unlawful. This judgement tells ministers in crystal clear terms that they are breaching the public’s human rights." So the question then remains...where are the handcuffs?! I ask this question constantly when it comes to government wrongdoing and there is almost never anyone charged with anything. If the government has been acting in a…

Well... These are the (large) cracks in rule of law that no one has ever managed to close entirely.

It's dangerous to criminalise political tier decisions and actions, just like it's dangerous to prosecute former politicians. It harms the ability to preserve peaceful transitions. Criminals or not.

First, it opens a door to political purging. Also incentives to use power in order to remain free is just too big.

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