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Why I find IOTA alarming

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Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#111
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's actually this really clever emulation you can do where you don't blindly use two bits per trit, but fractionally pack the trits into bits such that you don't end up with any wasted bits. This has the further advantage that since it produces the same inputs and outputs as binary encoding that you can use the native binary hardware on the CPU to do all your math. Because it is the native binary encoding. One of…

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you can use a clever encoding to work with trits natively but "clever encodings to pack trits" seems like something of an antifeature when we're talking about anything within a mile of cryptography...

I was being sarcastic, because the optimal packing of a "trit-based number" into binary is just binary.

It is possible to sit down and work it all out on paper, and you can work out how many trits using logarithms you can pack into a given number of bits, etc etc., but all the terms will cancel and the math will tell you that you just end up with binary again. You can end up with quite the table explaining how to add "binary-encoded base-3" numbers together if you insist on holding on to the idea that base-3 numbers somehow exist separately from base-2 numbers, but in the end it'll all just cancel out. You can get some idea of what it would look like, and how silly it would be, if we trained people to add numbers together by first converting them into binary, adding them in binary, and then converting back to decimal, since that would be the same thing, just with different bases, but does capture how inconvenient it is to do math that way when your bases can't be translated via lookup table (i.e., hexadecimal binary can be done mechanically on a string basis for the number, unlike 2 3 or 2 10 (thanks to the factor of 5 in the 10)). And then imagine that as we are teaching people that maneuver that we are telling them that the binary-encoded representation is the real number, and the base-10 encoding is a fake number that can't be trusted or used the same way.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#112
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 8 times more efficient than binary They're claiming this, for what operation? And similar question for the 10% usage claim. I suspect storage will be the same when you get done packing into machine words and storing those, yes? Unless they're not using all the bits in a word... Any independent references for ternary efficiencies for any operation?

If I understood it correctly, they're claiming that it's more efficient on native ternary hardware, and it has no advantage on binary hardware. The people behind IOTA are also connected in some fashion to the development of such a ternary computer.

Oh wow. Now that you mention this I totally remember this project from like 2015 when some people, including Come-From-Beyond, were raising money for some sort of ternary computing hardware project.

Totally forgot about it, and never put two and two together(three and three? :P) to link it to IOTA. Now that they are quite wealthy, I wonder if it will become a reality. I'm highly skeptical, but I really don't know enough to form a real opinion. Definitely one of those things that make you go 'huh?' though.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BitConnect, a literal Ponzi scheme that was repeatedly flagged to newbies as a Ponzi scheme they should avoid, had a $2.5 billion market cap last month before collapsing. While IOTA boosters probably have a story they believe that justifies the hype in their mind, just because it’s worth $6 billion in this market doesn’t mean they necessarily have a good one. For what it’s worth, of all the crypto people I follow tha…

We actually won't track IOTA or anything else we feel is too close to a scam on our website: https://projectpiglet.com/ It's amazing how many scams are in the cryptocurrency space. To some extent even I personally even view Ripple and all the other completely pre-mined or tokenized cryptocurrencies (i.e. 100% centralized systems) as a scam. There's no guarantee manipulation of the underlying technology isn't happenin…

Watching the crypto space has led me to realize that it's actually pretty hard to create any kind of financial system that is not mostly fraud.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#114
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that it is using balanced Ternary makes it seem like the science project of young/inexperienced developers. If you're building a cryptocurrency put away your hubris and use what is tried-and-true.

From their Learning IOTA FAQ: What makes IOTA quantum-secure? IOTA uses hash-based signatures ( https://www.imperialviolet.org/2013/07/18/hashsig.html ) instead of elliptic curve cryptography (ECC). Not only is hash-based signatures a lot faster than ECC, but it also greatly simplifies the overall protocol (signing and verification). What actually makes IOTA quantum-secure is the fact that we use Winternitz signature…

Hash sigs... ok

Winternitz... ok

Ternary hash function ... designed by genetic algorith ... WUT?

Why would you design your own hash function?

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, true, they did give out some coins (me included). Yet another possibility (which is how... a friend of mine... uses coins) is buying weed from the dark web. That's a big use case right now.

I bought my first legal weed in California yesterday and it was a very interesting experience. I don't usually smoke but I wanted to see what the store was like. It was strictly cash only. They had several ATM's installed in the building. Security was tight for this reason. It's hard to process that it's now legal.

Is it completely legal now? Do you no longer even need a prescription?

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#116
post #114
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From their Learning IOTA FAQ: What makes IOTA quantum-secure? IOTA uses hash-based signatures ( https://www.imperialviolet.org/2013/07/18/hashsig.html ) instead of elliptic curve cryptography (ECC). Not only is hash-based signatures a lot faster than ECC, but it also greatly simplifies the overall protocol (signing and verification). What actually makes IOTA quantum-secure is the fact that we use Winternitz signature…

Hash sigs... ok Winternitz... ok Ternary hash function ... designed by genetic algorith ... WUT? Why would you design your own hash function?

Maybe 'quantum resistance':

IOTA does not use traditional asymmetrical (public-key) cryptography algorithms which depend on not being able to efficiently computing discrete logarithms or factoring numbers (which are believed to be easy on a quantum computer).

Instead, its signatures are based on the Winternitz signature scheme (slightly modified for ternary) which only depend on the impossibility of reversing hash functions (Kerl in case of IOTA which is a ternary version of Keccak), which is believed not to be that as easy on a quantum computer as factoring a number (although any reversing of a (hash) function can be done more easily on a quantum computer than a traditional computer).

Disadvantage of Winternitz scheme is that signatures are one-time (every signature reveals parts of your key); therefore users have to be careful not to reuse addresses that have been spent.

Source: https://iota.stackexchange.com/questions/203/how-does-iota-m...

I also found something about 'the length of the computation of the hash function' somewhere as making it more quantum resistant but can no longer find the reference.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought my first legal weed in California yesterday and it was a very interesting experience. I don't usually smoke but I wanted to see what the store was like. It was strictly cash only. They had several ATM's installed in the building. Security was tight for this reason. It's hard to process that it's now legal.

Is it completely legal now? Do you no longer even need a prescription?

It is completely legal now and I didn't need a prescription card. They asked me if I had a prescription card, for what reason I don't know, because I've never had one and they don't require it anymore. I think perhaps medical clients get discounts or special deals?

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#118
post #2

I feel like I'm missing one side of the story. I don't know much about IOTA but from what I learned reading articles linked on HN today IOTA: - Uses custom "ternary" crypto which has been shown to have vulnerabilities in the past. - Has software that doesn't include the basic function of generating wallet addresses, instead having some users rely on shady 3rd party websites and getting their coins stolen. - Does away…

You can read more concerns about IOTA and ternary in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15980675

IOTA rebutted MIT here: https://blog.iota.org/official-iota-foundation-response-to-t...

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#119
post #116
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hash sigs... ok Winternitz... ok Ternary hash function ... designed by genetic algorith ... WUT? Why would you design your own hash function?

Maybe 'quantum resistance': IOTA does not use traditional asymmetrical (public-key) cryptography algorithms which depend on not being able to efficiently computing discrete logarithms or factoring numbers (which are believed to be easy on a quantum computer). Instead, its signatures are based on the Winternitz signature scheme (slightly modified for ternary) which only depend on the impossibility of reversing hash fu…

Doesn't explain using your own hash function, though. SHA-3 doesn't depend on the security of the discrete logarithm or integer factoring problems. Finding SHA-3 collisions on a quantum computer is only quadratically faster than a classical computer.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it completely legal now? Do you no longer even need a prescription?

It is completely legal now and I didn't need a prescription card. They asked me if I had a prescription card, for what reason I don't know, because I've never had one and they don't require it anymore. I think perhaps medical clients get discounts or special deals?

Probably asked so they don’t charge some kind tax or something...
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