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Diamond Blockchain Initiative

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Re: Diamond Blockchain Initiative

#11

Post by tabs_masterrace »

simias wrote: post #4

I've seen many claims that the blockchain can be used to provide traceability for various goods but I don't get it. For one thing this isn't trustless, the blockchain doesn't know what a diamond is so if a person entering a new diamond to the blockchain "database" decides to lie there's no way to prevent it "trustlessly". How do you prevent the same diamond to be entered twice in the chain? How do you prevent somebod…

Maybe they want to do DiamondCoin, a crypto currency backed by diamonds, could be neat.

Re: Diamond Blockchain Initiative

#12

Post by routerman »

Joeboy wrote: post #6

I'm wondering: 1) Do diamonds have unique digital fingerprints? How do I know if the diamond I see in front of me corresponds to the record the dealer shows me on the blockchain? 2) What happens when people (inevitably) put bad information in the permanent digital record? Does anybody have the authority to correct it?

With regard to your first question, I was wondering the same too. Found this Coindesk article which might be helpful (https://www.coindesk.com/everledger-blockchain-tech-fight-di...).

"Before a stone like this can be digitised, pricey or not, it needs a unique identifier – a fingerprint – that allows it to be tracked on Everledger’s platform as it changes hands.

This is calculated from 40 data points related to each stone – alongside the Four C's. Any diamond over 0.16 carats will also have a serial number inscribed on its girdle during the grading process.

While a criminal could reshape a stone to distort its 'digital fingerprint', Kemp explained that diamonds are not, in fact, the sum of their parts. The cutting process results in a lot of wastage, so any attempt to alter a diamond, or split it into two, will drastically reduce its value."

Re: Diamond Blockchain Initiative

#13

Post by pjc50 »

mikro2nd wrote: post #2

Doomed to be subsumed by whichever Chain-of-Custody/Certification-of-Origin blockchain project wins out in the long run. And there are lots of them -- this is an obvious and compelling use of the technology. It's just a case of waiting to see which solution dominates, but I'm pretty certain it WON'T be a proprietary or vendor-owned blockchain since that violates the very thing a blockchain solution brings to the tabl…

I'm not sure; it doesn't seem obvious that the certification chains of unrelated products should be on the same blockchain, and it doesn't seem obvious that users of this system will want to pay the high energy prices of proof-of-waste.

Re: Diamond Blockchain Initiative

#14

Post by 0wing »

There's something very poetic about this, as the similarities of diamond cartels [1] and cryptocurrencies [2] effectively granting a small amount of people the control the majority of supplies of artificially constrained assets both of which have vastly inflated prices relative to production costs.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Beers#Diamond_monopoly

[2] http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-inequality-2014-1

Re: Diamond Blockchain Initiative

#15

Post by routerman »

Joeboy wrote: post #6

I'm wondering: 1) Do diamonds have unique digital fingerprints? How do I know if the diamond I see in front of me corresponds to the record the dealer shows me on the blockchain? 2) What happens when people (inevitably) put bad information in the permanent digital record? Does anybody have the authority to correct it?

As for your second question, it depends on what kind of platform the diamond industry builds on. If the diamonds are tracked using a smart contract on the public Ethereum chain, there may be special functions in the contract that allow certain entities to edit data in the contract. The problem with this is that consumers have to trust that the companies use this write access honestly. A partial solution might be to only allow certain data in the smart contract to be edited IF at least X number of companies in the consortium agrees to it. Still requires trust, but less of it.

If they're building their own blockchain to track the diamonds, and consensus is simply maintained by a small group of entities in the industry, then it's trivial to edit the data. But of course, if this is the case, then it begs the question of why a blockchain is even needed. Just use a shared database.

Re: Diamond Blockchain Initiative

#16

Post by [deleted] »

routerman wrote: post #12
Joeboy wrote: post #6

I'm wondering: 1) Do diamonds have unique digital fingerprints? How do I know if the diamond I see in front of me corresponds to the record the dealer shows me on the blockchain? 2) What happens when people (inevitably) put bad information in the permanent digital record? Does anybody have the authority to correct it?

With regard to your first question, I was wondering the same too. Found this Coindesk article which might be helpful ( https://www.coindesk.com/everledger-blockchain-tech-fight-di... ). "Before a stone like this can be digitised, pricey or not, it needs a unique identifier – a fingerprint – that allows it to be tracked on Everledger’s platform as it changes hands. This is calculated from 40 data points related to eac…

[deleted]

Re: Diamond Blockchain Initiative

#17

Post by simias »

thisisit wrote: post #7
simias wrote: post #4

I've seen many claims that the blockchain can be used to provide traceability for various goods but I don't get it. For one thing this isn't trustless, the blockchain doesn't know what a diamond is so if a person entering a new diamond to the blockchain "database" decides to lie there's no way to prevent it "trustlessly". How do you prevent the same diamond to be entered twice in the chain? How do you prevent somebod…

You are correct. Humans will be the weakest link in this security link, specially at the origin. Bitcoin etc solve this by using PoW. But here there can be issue if there is a malicious first entry That said, a case might be made for a traceable and immutable book which shows the movement of each diamond. But that might run into privacy issues. This can be solved by using a private blockchain but then again it goes b…

I agree with you but I want to point out that "a traceable and immutable book" is perfectly achievable without blockchain. Just have De Beers (or the authority of your choice) publish their signed "immutable" ledger publicly at regular intervals. Anybody can mirror it (like the "nodes" of bitcoin mirror the blockchain). If the authority decides to cheat and rewrite history (for instance to change the origin of a diamond) any of the 3rd party mirrors can detect the conflict and blow the whistle.

Re: Diamond Blockchain Initiative

#18

Post by mikro2nd »

pjc50 wrote: post #13
mikro2nd wrote: post #2

Doomed to be subsumed by whichever Chain-of-Custody/Certification-of-Origin blockchain project wins out in the long run. And there are lots of them -- this is an obvious and compelling use of the technology. It's just a case of waiting to see which solution dominates, but I'm pretty certain it WON'T be a proprietary or vendor-owned blockchain since that violates the very thing a blockchain solution brings to the tabl…

I'm not sure; it doesn't seem obvious that the certification chains of unrelated products should be on the same blockchain, and it doesn't seem obvious that users of this system will want to pay the high energy prices of proof-of-waste.

Seems to me that once you've solved the problem, applying it across a variety of unrelated products is an easy thing to do, with the advantage that your solution is already proven, has gained some traction in another sector and is not something new and untried. It's one of those things where the first one to win is likely to win big (unless they fuck it up along the way somehow.)

Not sure how your comment on PoW applies, though (despite agreeing with you.) Plenty of the solutions in developments are using PoS/other/hybrid consensus mechanisms.

Re: Diamond Blockchain Initiative

#19

Post by unboxed_type »

routerman wrote: post #15
Joeboy wrote: post #6

I'm wondering: 1) Do diamonds have unique digital fingerprints? How do I know if the diamond I see in front of me corresponds to the record the dealer shows me on the blockchain? 2) What happens when people (inevitably) put bad information in the permanent digital record? Does anybody have the authority to correct it?

As for your second question, it depends on what kind of platform the diamond industry builds on. If the diamonds are tracked using a smart contract on the public Ethereum chain, there may be special functions in the contract that allow certain entities to edit data in the contract. The problem with this is that consumers have to trust that the companies use this write access honestly. A partial solution might be to o…

>But of course, if this is the case, then it begs the >question of why a blockchain is even needed. Just use a >shared database.

Two issues regarding your second observation.

1) A change that requires a consensus among some non-tiny group of participants is not trivial thing to accomplish in practice. You will have to wait before every one from a group of N (say, 20) representatives will agree with your change.

2) Why a blockchain is needed? Because no other "shared database" provides the same trust model which is "everyone trusts no one". Every other database "security model" in existence assumes that every admin trusts every other admin. If it is not so, then things quickly become complicated and impractical.

Re: Diamond Blockchain Initiative

#20

Post by unboxed_type »

routerman wrote: post #12
Joeboy wrote: post #6

I'm wondering: 1) Do diamonds have unique digital fingerprints? How do I know if the diamond I see in front of me corresponds to the record the dealer shows me on the blockchain? 2) What happens when people (inevitably) put bad information in the permanent digital record? Does anybody have the authority to correct it?

With regard to your first question, I was wondering the same too. Found this Coindesk article which might be helpful ( https://www.coindesk.com/everledger-blockchain-tech-fight-di... ). "Before a stone like this can be digitised, pricey or not, it needs a unique identifier – a fingerprint – that allows it to be tracked on Everledger’s platform as it changes hands. This is calculated from 40 data points related to eac…

Thanks for that quote!
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