somebody share this link with Mike Ross
Becoming a Lawyer Without Going to Law School (2015)
41–50 of 98 posts
Re: Becoming a Lawyer Without Going to Law School (2015)
#42Didn't work so well for Mike Ross.
Who is Mike Ross? When searching such a common name (at least it sounds common to me, a non-native speaker), I see a politician, someone who got capital punishment, and a bunch of other people. Adding lawyer to the query doesn't seem to help.
Re: Becoming a Lawyer Without Going to Law School (2015)
#43Lawyers currently have one of the most bi-modal salary distributions of any profession. It seems to me that for folks who want to enter the profession doing low pay work that this should be a more supported and common path as law school is a ridiculous choice for someone who is going to make less than a teacher for the rest of their life. I’ve known a handful of public defenders in my time and almost all of them had…
The barrister/solicitor split is theoretically that between litigation (solicitor) and advocacy (barrister). If you're a commercial solicitor working in the city it's very much not a second-best option and is very lucrative. Solicitors do advocacy in the lower courts, but it's theoretically not the main focus of their job. You're right that it's generally harder to fully qualify as a barrister, though [edit: in Engla…
Litigation is not the right word for solicitors' work in general – they do a lot of non-contentious business, especially in the City (eg. corporate finance and M&A). Although many solicitors do litigation (which includes advocacy in the courts), most barristers do it exclusively. Also, it is solicitors who are required to undertake a year of practical training in a law firm [1]. Barristers do a pupillage [2] under the supervision of a mentor.
Re: Becoming a Lawyer Without Going to Law School (2015)
#44Lawyers currently have one of the most bi-modal salary distributions of any profession. It seems to me that for folks who want to enter the profession doing low pay work that this should be a more supported and common path as law school is a ridiculous choice for someone who is going to make less than a teacher for the rest of their life. I’ve known a handful of public defenders in my time and almost all of them had…
> Lawyers currently have one of the most bi-modal salary distributions of any profession. I understand what you're saying but I feel like the top 50 would be occupied by people in various types of art, food preparation/serving, personal care/service, and writing. It would probably be top 3 easily for the amount of debt most of the lawyers go into for their degree(which seems to be the issue you are getting at anyways…
Income in those professions is not bimodal; it follows a power law. The frequency distribution of income for US lawyers has two clear modes (local maxima) at around $50,000 and $160,000 [1], meaning that roughly the same number of lawyers earn each of those salaries. Put another way, a randomly-selected US lawyer is more likely to earn $160,000 than the much lower mean US lawyer salary.
[1]: https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/16/the-toppling-o...
Re: Becoming a Lawyer Without Going to Law School (2015)
#45Didn't work so well for Mike Ross.
Who is Mike Ross? When searching such a common name (at least it sounds common to me, a non-native speaker), I see a politician, someone who got capital punishment, and a bunch of other people. Adding lawyer to the query doesn't seem to help.
He's referencing the main character of the TV show "Suits"
Re: Becoming a Lawyer Without Going to Law School (2015)
#46My cousin, who is a former K St lawyer, told me about how in the 80s(?), Texas passed a law that allowed people who fit very narrow requirements to take the bar exam without attending law school. One high profile businessman passed the bar exam this way. So.. If you want to skip law school, have one of your legislator cronies slip in a law school loophole in a bill. Non-lawyers are allowed to take the patent bar exam…
>> You get the designation of patent agent. That's what I plan to do- become one of the few licensed engineers that has also passed the patent bar. These people often get called as expert witnesses in IP-related cases and get paid a huge amount of money. I am sure you know this, but it's definitely something to investigate.
Sorry, what exactly needs investigating?
Re: Becoming a Lawyer Without Going to Law School (2015)
#47My cousin, who is a former K St lawyer, told me about how in the 80s(?), Texas passed a law that allowed people who fit very narrow requirements to take the bar exam without attending law school. One high profile businessman passed the bar exam this way. So.. If you want to skip law school, have one of your legislator cronies slip in a law school loophole in a bill. Non-lawyers are allowed to take the patent bar exam…
You still have to have an accredited BS in engineering or science to take it. I assumed a degree from an accredited school would fit the bill but found out that was not the case when I wanted to take the patent bar years ago. You have to check the website to see if your degree qualifies. I have a BS in Computer Information Systems which is almost identical to the CS degree that I could have gotten. The difference was…
You can also choose to pass the FE exam to qualify for the patent bar; most states require a BS in engineering to take the FE exam, but not all, and an FE pass in a state that doesn't still qualifies.
Re: Becoming a Lawyer Without Going to Law School (2015)
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Barristers have a more arduous path" That's not true in Scotland - solicitors have two years of on the job training after a law degree and a postgraduate qualification. Training to become an advocate (Scottish equivalent of a barrister) takes a year as a "devil" which means passing some extra exams and basically following a senior junior (or two) about for most of a year and you can do that after a single year of tr…
Agreed, as a Scots qualified lawyer and now an engineer I don't feel that choosing the solicitor route was somehow the 'lesser option'. Additionally most advocates/barristers will work as a solicitor for several years before making the leap to the bar. It's useful to have contacts and to be somewhat known before you do your devilling/pupillage as the minority of the advocates/barristers will pull in the majority of t…
I wonder why that's not more commonly known - I imagine many think of a solicitor as simply the "S" in ESPC or ASPC, i.e. that they relate mostly to property stuff.
Re: Becoming a Lawyer Without Going to Law School (2015)
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> You get the designation of patent agent. That's what I plan to do- become one of the few licensed engineers that has also passed the patent bar. These people often get called as expert witnesses in IP-related cases and get paid a huge amount of money. I am sure you know this, but it's definitely something to investigate.
Sorry, what exactly needs investigating?
Whether there is an alternative revenue stream to be had.
Re: Becoming a Lawyer Without Going to Law School (2015)
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed, as a Scots qualified lawyer and now an engineer I don't feel that choosing the solicitor route was somehow the 'lesser option'. Additionally most advocates/barristers will work as a solicitor for several years before making the leap to the bar. It's useful to have contacts and to be somewhat known before you do your devilling/pupillage as the minority of the advocates/barristers will pull in the majority of t…
I wonder why that's not more commonly known - I imagine many think of a solicitor as simply the "S" in ESPC or ASPC, i.e. that they relate mostly to property stuff.
Ironically, the chances of actually having domestic conveyancing done by an actual solicitor is pretty small - it's mostly done by paralegals (domestic conveyancing is very much at the low end of the legal market - with corporate at the high end).
Edit: Not to say that domestic conveyancing can't be complex but the fees are so low for the actual conveyancing part (rather than the sales part) that you are unlikely to get a very comprehensive job done. I've heard utter horror stories of what can happen with conveyancing when it goes wrong....